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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I pretty much hear everyone saying the same thing here so folks
don’t need to get too riled up. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>People need to be aware that riding a bike on the sidewalk
creates a hazard for others. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Of course we have a Jay walking law and I believe those smaller
scooters actually are classified the same as bikes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com [mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Everest Designs<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 07, 2009 12:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> missoulagov@cmslists.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [MissoulaGov] Bikes on Sidewalks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Ok then we should allow all the cool progressive people
who buy small scooters from scooterville to ride on the sidewalks too----yeah
let's just ride r bikes any way we want with out any rules like----ya know
like J walking which really isn't a problem but somehow I bet there is
legislation in place at the city level. Just
walk your bike---whats the big deal.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Matt<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><em><span style='color:#0000BF'> </span></em><span
style='color:#0000BF'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
--- On <b>Wed, 10/7/09, missoulagov-request@cmslists.com <i><missoulagov-request@cmslists.com></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: missoulagov-request@cmslists.com
<missoulagov-request@cmslists.com><br>
Subject: MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 44, Issue 7<br>
To: missoulagov@cmslists.com<br>
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 12:00 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks (amy
casamassa)<br>
2. Re: Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks (Ethel
MacDonald)<br>
3. Re: Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks (David
V. Gray)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:29:51 -0600<br>
From: amy casamassa <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=amytcas@gmail.com">amytcas@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks<br>
To: <a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=2f9b529f0910061229v69873d67pdb9a3149a6351c2c@mail.gmail.com">2f9b529f0910061229v69873d67pdb9a3149a6351c2c@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
I completely agree with the statement below from <a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kjerrim@missoula.com">kjerrim@missoula.com</a>.
In<br>
addition, I think trying to paint cyclists as toddler-smashing,<br>
downtown-ruining, menaces to society is just plain silly. Accidents do<br>
happen due to people not paying attention, not knowing the rules, or just<br>
plain not caring about others, but for the most part we live in a pretty<br>
tolerant place. I consider myself progressive, but I think a silly road to<br>
go down is believing that legislating tolerance and courteousness will<br>
really stop intolerance or discourteousness.<br>
<br>
<br>
I appreciate what the BID is attempting to do for bikes from Broadway to the<br>
X's, but these ordinances that pertain to behavior have got to stop.
Bums<br>
and bikes are not the reason why downtowns are failing. Are we really<br>
pretending that there is any truth to that? You could strategically
place<br>
proximity mines in front of Super Walmart and people would still fight to<br>
get in there. We all know that a large reason downtowns are failing<br>
isbecause it costs considerably more to buy something from asmalllocal<br>
business than it does to buy it from a box store. Despite the fact that
I<br>
know that, I make a conscious effort to buy locally. There are many
reasons<br>
why, not the least of which being that I love this town and the character<br>
that comes with it. I find that the things I buy may cost more
downtown,<br>
but are more special (and let?s face it, less toxic) than things I can find<br>
in a box store. Last year all the gifts I bought for Christmas came
from<br>
stores downtown or south of the bridge on Higgins. I am willing to
spend<br>
more to keep businesses alive in Missoula. I feel like Missoula isn?t
an<br>
over-regulated place and I think that means we trust our citizenry to make<br>
choices with the community in mind. I understand that the BID and City<br>
Council are working towards making downtown a desirable and convenient place<br>
to shop, but I don?t think the way to do that is to make downtown Missoula a<br>
whitewashed, cutsey-bootsie, over-regulated, Park City-esque mountain town.<br>
Which is what I see happening with these laws to stop people from doing<br>
things that a portion of the population finds annoying. Not<br>
dangerous-annoying. If that is the case, then those downtown businesses
can<br>
kiss my dollars goodbye.<br>
<br>
Amy T. Cas<br>
<br>
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:38 PM, <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kjerrim@missoula.com">kjerrim@missoula.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
I think the whole point I am hearing raised is enough with all these<br>
ordinances pertaining to behavioral problems that some find annoying but<br>
others may not.<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:40:20 -0600<br>
From: Ethel MacDonald <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ethelmacd@gmail.com">ethelmacd@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks<br>
To: Pam Walzer <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pamwalzer@gmail.com">pamwalzer@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=49c658a60910061240q56f2781arb5136131ce48a667@mail.gmail.com">49c658a60910061240q56f2781arb5136131ce48a667@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Well-said, Pam! Remind me to send you $$ when you have to go through
the<br>
re-election hassle. We need people like you on CC who see more than one<br>
side of things and try to work together in peace (and fortunately, most CC<br>
members do, in my opinion.) Ethel<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Pam Walzer <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pamwalzer@gmail.com">pamwalzer@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> All,<br>
><br>
> Thank you all for this discussion - and those past. I rarely chime in,<br>
> rather I prefer listen to what this participating community is saying.
Much<br>
> has been said in this conversation that I finally would like to add to
or<br>
> clarify.<br>
><br>
> To put into perspective how much the City of Missoula collects in taxes
on<br>
> residential properties, and therefore what a "large tax break"
that Jeremy<br>
> Hood suggested would look like, I took a gander at my last year's
property<br>
> tax bill. I have a modest home in the Westside. Probably overpriced due
to<br>
> its location and very grateful to have purchased it when it was truly<br>
> affordable. I'm guessing it's tue, open market value is now on the high
end<br>
> of today's "affordable" to low side of median price for
Missoula.<br>
><br>
> For all that the City of Missoula provides me: fire, police, streets -
with<br>
> or without potholes, traffic lights, snow and leaf removal, parks, open<br>
> space protection, zoning protection to make sure a tire manufacturer
doesn't<br>
> open up next door to me, on and on .... I paid $403.08 last year in
*CITY*taxes, or $33.59 per month. That's less than my satellite TV bill! I
also<br>
> gladly paid an additional $71.25 per year in a permenant SID to pay for<br>
> extra neighborhood street and alley lighting - although much of that
goes to<br>
> Northwestern to rent the light poles. So for less than $40/month in
taxes to<br>
> the City of Missoula, I get all the services, tangible and intangible,
that<br>
> the city provides to its citizens, businesses and visitors (who, by the<br>
> way, pay NO direct taxes to the city).<br>
><br>
> To follow one of Jeremy's ideas (which is similar to many others about
the<br>
> value of tax breaks) - let's give owners of rental properties a break in<br>
> their city taxes so they can pass it off in lower rentals.
Reducing the<br>
> rent on property like mine $40/month is not going to make it any more<br>
> affordable to rent (or even own). In the mean time, the city would no
longer<br>
> have all of those small, individual revenues to provide for those myriad
of<br>
> services we all need or want. If we, as a community, want all of those<br>
> things that the city provides, then who is going to pay? Increase the
taxes<br>
> on owner occupied homes? Increase the property taxes on businesses? As
much<br>
> as I want to do what I can support local business, I'm pretty sure the<br>
> courts would find it a constitutional problem with the city taxing Home<br>
> Depot more than Boyce Lumber, or REI or more than Trailhead. If you want
to<br>
> support local, than do just that - spend your dollars at Quality Supply,<br>
> Orange St. Food Farm, downtown stores, etc... We are fortunate that we
do<br>
> have numerous high quality and reasonably priced local and Montana based<br>
> businesses to choose from.<br>
><br>
> So how can the city solve some of the problems like real or perceived<br>
> blight on Brooks corridor or West Broadway or Russell St.? As Geoff
Badenoch<br>
> said, the city has the MRA to encourage and assist in the redevelopement
of<br>
> areas like these around the city. But private business has to be willing
and<br>
> feel that a profit can be made. Last night we passed the zoning
ordinance<br>
> rewrite. A small part of that document provides zoning tools that will
make<br>
> it easier for developers to do mixed use development. During the West<br>
> Broadway charette process, the consultants said that there was a
significant<br>
> impediment to reaching the vision that the community saw for the area -
we<br>
> did not have zoning that would allow the implementation of that vision.<br>
> Now we have that. Will West Broadway suddenly become the vision, with
tree<br>
> lined streets with landscaped medians and lots of pedestrians and small<br>
> shops with apartments above with everyone smiling and happy and well<br>
> dressed? No, it will be a long evolutionary process, one that requires
the<br>
> business community and the city government to continue to work together.
The<br>
> city can't do it alone, but we can help the process. By having a plan
and<br>
> providing tools with zoning and the MRA, we are helping the process
along.<br>
><br>
> So what can the city do to improve the economy in Missoula? Besides what<br>
> Geoff B. and Jim McGraff have already listed that we actually do, I
believe<br>
> we keep on doing what we do so well - keep Missoula a wonderful place to<br>
> live and do business. That means worrying about the minutia of daily
living:<br>
> dogs at large, bears in dumpsters, cars speeding in neighborhoods, bikes<br>
> "speeding" on sidewalks, cars not providing bikes a safe share
of the<br>
> road, bikes stopping or not at stop signs, people driving while
distracted<br>
> by cell phones, boulevard tree maintenance. Some people find these
things a<br>
> threat to their safety and well-being, others feel that they have a
right<br>
> to act how they personally feel is safe and/or appropriate, others feel
that<br>
> these are silly common sense or manners things and that the city should
stay<br>
> out of it. What a wonderful society we would be it we ALL lived by the<br>
> golden rule. Very few, if any, laws would be necessary. But look into
your<br>
> hearts and your actions, the actions of your neighbors, and "that
idiot down<br>
> the street" and realize that essentially all we do on council is to
try to<br>
> protect your and your neighbor's quality of life in the City of
Missoula.<br>
> There is at least one thing, probably many, that the city regulates (or<br>
> doesn't!) that you feel is absolutely necessary. Likewise, I'm sure
there is<br>
> at least one thing, probably many, that you think is a complete waste of<br>
> time and energy - but that just happens to be something that someone
else<br>
> feels is extremely important for them. So the city council spends a lot
of<br>
> time deciding how we, with very limited resources, can keep Missoula a<br>
> wonderful place to live and work while it grows and evolves over the
years.<br>
><br>
> Thank you for your patience in my ruminating. It's obvious why I rarely<br>
> participate.<br>
><br>
> Pam Walzer,<br>
> Missoula City Council<br>
> Alderwoman, Ward 2<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> -----Please delete extra content when replying to messages------<br>
><br>
> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula. But<br>
> posts to this list may be entered into the public record.<br>
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><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
"Apathy is a vice." Oscar Wilde<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:31:39 -0600<br>
From: "David V. Gray" <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hdgray@modwest.com">hdgray@modwest.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks<br>
To: "'amy casamassa'" <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=amytcas@gmail.com">amytcas@gmail.com</a>>,
<<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <010701ca46ed$eb3ac050$c1b040f0$@com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
God this is the such a beautiful email. Way to go Amy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
David V. Gray<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a><br>
[mailto:<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a>]
On Behalf Of amy casamassa<br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:30 PM<br>
To: <a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 9-30-09 Bikes on Sidewalks<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I completely agree with the statement below from <a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kjerrim@missoula.com">kjerrim@missoula.com</a>.
In<br>
addition, I think trying to paint cyclists as toddler-smashing,<br>
downtown-ruining, menaces to society is just plain silly. Accidents do<br>
happen due to people not paying attention, not knowing the rules, or just<br>
plain not caring about others, but for the most part we live in a pretty<br>
tolerant place. I consider myself progressive, but I think a silly road to<br>
go down is believing that legislating tolerance and courteousness will<br>
really stop intolerance or discourteousness. <br>
<br>
<br>
I appreciate what the BID is attempting to do for bikes from Broadway to the<br>
X's, but these ordinances that pertain to behavior have got to stop.
Bums<br>
and bikes are not the reason why downtowns are failing. Are we really<br>
pretending that there is any truth to that? You could strategically
place<br>
proximity mines in front of Super Walmart and people would still fight to<br>
get in there. We all know that a large reason downtowns are failing is<br>
because it costs considerably more to buy something from a small local<br>
business than it does to buy it from a box store. Despite the fact that
I<br>
know that, I make a conscious effort to buy locally. There are many
reasons<br>
why, not the least of which being that I love this town and the character<br>
that comes with it. I find that the things I buy may cost more
downtown,<br>
but are more special (and let's face it, less toxic) than things I can find<br>
in a box store. Last year all the gifts I bought for Christmas came
from<br>
stores downtown or south of the bridge on Higgins. I am willing to
spend<br>
more to keep businesses alive in Missoula. I feel like Missoula isn't
an<br>
over-regulated place and I think that means we trust our citizenry to make<br>
choices with the community in mind. I understand that the BID and City<br>
Council are working towards making downtown a desirable and convenient place<br>
to shop, but I don't think the way to do that is to make downtown Missoula a<br>
whitewashed, cutsey-bootsie, over-regulated, Park City-esque mountain town.<br>
Which is what I see happening with these laws to stop people from doing<br>
things that a portion of the population finds annoying. Not<br>
dangerous-annoying. If that is the case, then those downtown businesses
can<br>
kiss my dollars goodbye. <br>
<br>
Amy T. Cas<br>
<br>
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:38 PM, <<a
href="http://us.mc529.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kjerrim@missoula.com">kjerrim@missoula.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
I think the whole point I am hearing raised is enough with all these<br>
ordinances pertaining to behavioral problems that some find annoying but<br>
others may not.<br>
<br>
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<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
-------Please delete extra content when replying to messages--------<br>
Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula. But posts
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End of MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 44, Issue 7<br>
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