Hear, hear, Derek. Why can cats wander into my yard when dogs are prevented? How much more cat poop do I have to run over with my lawn mower?<br clear="all">--<br>Sutton R. Stokes<br><br>443.540.7076<br><a href="mailto:sutton.stokes@gmail.com">sutton.stokes@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.SuttonStokes.com">www.SuttonStokes.com</a><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:00 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:missoulagov-request@cmslists.com">missoulagov-request@cmslists.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Highlights for Monday's public hearings (Derek Goldman)<br>
2. Re: Highlights for Monday's public hearings (Rod Austin)<br>
3. Re: Highlights for Monday's public hearings (Westridge Creative)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:54:52 -0700<br>
From: Derek Goldman <<a href="mailto:derekmgold@hotmail.com">derekmgold@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>>, <<a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <COL104-W16BBA37DCDCF0C76591AB3DFDB0@phx.gbl><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
<br>
thanks for the heads up, Bob. Re the cat ordinance:<br>
I'm not sure why the ammendment proposes to change the definition of a bothersome cat from "nuisance" to "unnattended." I looked up the dog ordinance, and bothersome DOGS are indeed referred to as "nuisance." So why not cats? We should be consistent so as not to send a message that dogs can be bothersome, but cats cannot be.<br>
I would also recommend one additional change to close a loophole in the cat ordinance:In the definition of a nuisance/unattended cat, please strike the last 4 words of the sentence that requires a cat to be unaltered in order to fit the definition. If a cat is off it's owner's property, then it may be causing problems with its neighbors irrespective of its reproductive status.Excessive cat breeding is indeed a problem, but it is only one problem caused by loose cats. Urination and defecation in private and community gardens, flower beds, compost piles, and under decks, as well as harassment of native wildlife and other pets also present problems. But as the ordinance is currently writen, a cat can legally do all these things as long as it is neutered or spayed. That seems odd (and also inconsistent with dog ordinance, which lists "defecation..." as one of the many activities that define a nuisance dog). Please send this back for reconsideration. Thanks, Derek Goldman<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:53:32 -0700From: BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.usTo: missoulagov@cmslists.comSubject: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
We have five public hearings scheduled for tomorrow.<br>
Here are some highlights in case anyone wants to come and comment (you can also comment by sending mail to <a href="mailto:council@ci.missoula.mt.us">council@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>).<br>
<br>
Cats:<br>
<a href="ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf" target="_blank">ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf</a><br>
<br>
There are a few changes to the ordinance being proposed.<br>
?Nuisance cat? is replaced by ?unattended cat?. An unattended cat is an unaltered cat off of its owner?s property. To be the owner of an unattended cat is illegal.<br>
A breeding cat is an unaltered cat 4 months old. It used to be six months.<br>
<br>
It is unlawful to own a pair of unaltered cats of the opposite sex without a breeders license.<br>
It is unlawful to own more than five cats without a breeders license (this appears to be the controversial one)<br>
<br>
A breeders license costs $50 and requires an inspection.<br>
<br>
Dogs:<br>
Pet Day Care Centers are defined.<br>
Leashes are required within 200 feet of trailheads.<br>
If an unaltered dog is picked up three times in its life it gets sterilized. There used to be an option to pay $250 to avoid sterilization.<br>
The following paragraph is included in the unlawful section:<br>
<br>
For a dog owner to cause, allow, permit, either willfully or by failure to<br>
exercise due care, to allow a dog to be a nuisance barking dog. EXCEPT:<br>
that such sounds made at animal shelters, commercial kennels, pet daycare<br>
centers and veterinary hospitals which meet the proper zoning requirements<br>
2. shall be exempt<br>
<br>
The ?Pet Daycare centers? were included in the exemption when it was originally presented to us. I asked that this be removed. I am hoping to hear from people on this prior to making a final decision. These businesses can have a very high impact on their neighbors.<br>
<br>
Park Fees:<br>
General incremental increase in the parks fees. There may be some open issues on the rate set for the 50 meter pool. There was an expectation that it would be rented out at full cost this year but I believe the proposal still has a general fund subsidy.<br>
<br>
Other Public Hearings:<br>
We also have a couple of annexations including the large Linda Vista Estates subdivision.<br>
<br>
Bob Jaffe<br>
Missoula City Council, Ward 3<br>
<a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a><br>
406-728-1052<br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.<br>
<a href="http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009" target="_blank">http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009</a><br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:28:07 -0700<br>
From: "Rod Austin" <<a href="mailto:raustin@missouladowntownbid.org">raustin@missouladowntownbid.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
To: "'Derek Goldman'" <<a href="mailto:derekmgold@hotmail.com">derekmgold@hotmail.com</a>>,<br>
<<a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>>, <<a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <004b01c974ca$5f9b7850$1ed268f0$@org><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
I think Derek has hit the nail on the head. My sister in law is a small<br>
animal vet north of Philly and in that area all pets are treated the same.<br>
Leash law and all, they make no difference. There is a responsibility to<br>
your neighbors as well as your pets. Take care of them and keep them under<br>
your control. Is it healthy or responsible for your cat to be attacked by<br>
dogs and other wild animals?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I have cats urinating all over my patio set, bbq, under my porch, under my<br>
shed and in my garage when they can get in. I finally started catching them<br>
in a live trap and taking them to the animal shelter. Keep the fines high<br>
for any loose animal.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
How do you think we will ever get a handle on the feral cat problems we<br>
have. They are a prominent carrier of rabies. Any cat (or dog)caught should<br>
have the requirement of being altered prior to going back to the owner.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Believe it or not I am an animal lover. That is why when I owned a pet I<br>
kept under my control at all times!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks for the work you do!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Rod Austin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a>] On Behalf Of Derek Goldman<br>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:55 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>; <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
thanks for the heads up, Bob. Re the cat ordinance:<br>
<br>
I'm not sure why the ammendment proposes to change the definition of a<br>
bothersome cat from "nuisance" to "unnattended." I looked up the dog<br>
ordinance, and bothersome DOGS are indeed referred to as "nuisance." So why<br>
not cats? We should be consistent so as not to send a message that dogs can<br>
be bothersome, but cats cannot be.<br>
<br>
I would also recommend one additional change to close a loophole in the cat<br>
ordinance:<br>
In the definition of a nuisance/unattended cat, please strike the last 4<br>
words of the sentence that requires a cat to be unaltered in order to fit<br>
the definition. If a cat is off it's owner's property, then it may be<br>
causing problems with its neighbors irrespective of its reproductive status.<br>
Excessive cat breeding is indeed a problem, but it is only one problem<br>
caused by loose cats. Urination and defecation in private and community<br>
gardens, flower beds, compost piles, and under decks, as well as harassment<br>
of native wildlife and other pets also present problems. But as the<br>
ordinance is currently writen, a cat can legally do all these things as long<br>
as it is neutered or spayed. That seems odd (and also inconsistent with dog<br>
ordinance, which lists "defecation..." as one of the many activities that<br>
define a nuisance dog). Please send this back for reconsideration.<br>
Thanks, Derek Goldman<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_____<br>
<br>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:53:32 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
<br>
We have five public hearings scheduled for tomorrow.<br>
<br>
Here are some highlights in case anyone wants to come and comment (you can<br>
also comment by sending mail to <a href="mailto:council@ci.missoula.mt.us">council@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cats:<br>
<br>
<a href="ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf" target="_blank">ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinance<br>
Amendment%5B1%5D.pdf</a><br>
<<a href="ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1" target="_blank">ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanc<br>
eAmendment[1</a>].pdf><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
There are a few changes to the ordinance being proposed.<br>
<br>
'Nuisance cat' is replaced by 'unattended cat'. An unattended cat is an<br>
unaltered cat off of its owner's property. To be the owner of an unattended<br>
cat is illegal.<br>
<br>
A breeding cat is an unaltered cat 4 months old. It used to be six months.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It is unlawful to own a pair of unaltered cats of the opposite sex without a<br>
breeders license.<br>
<br>
It is unlawful to own more than five cats without a breeders license (this<br>
appears to be the controversial one)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A breeders license costs $50 and requires an inspection.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dogs:<br>
<br>
Pet Day Care Centers are defined.<br>
<br>
Leashes are required within 200 feet of trailheads.<br>
<br>
If an unaltered dog is picked up three times in its life it gets sterilized.<br>
There used to be an option to pay $250 to avoid sterilization.<br>
<br>
The following paragraph is included in the unlawful section:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
For a dog owner to cause, allow, permit, either willfully or by failure to<br>
<br>
exercise due care, to allow a dog to be a nuisance barking dog. EXCEPT:<br>
<br>
that such sounds made at animal shelters, commercial kennels, pet daycare<br>
<br>
centers and veterinary hospitals which meet the proper zoning requirements<br>
<br>
2. shall be exempt<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The "Pet Daycare centers" were included in the exemption when it was<br>
originally presented to us. I asked that this be removed. I am hoping to<br>
hear from people on this prior to making a final decision. These businesses<br>
can have a very high impact on their neighbors.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Park Fees:<br>
<br>
General incremental increase in the parks fees. There may be some open<br>
issues on the rate set for the 50 meter pool. There was an expectation that<br>
it would be rented out at full cost this year but I believe the proposal<br>
still has a general fund subsidy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Other Public Hearings:<br>
<br>
We also have a couple of annexations including the large Linda Vista Estates<br>
subdivision.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Bob Jaffe<br>
<br>
Missoula City Council, Ward 3<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a><br>
<br>
406-728-1052<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_____<br>
<br>
Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.<br>
<<a href="http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012" target="_blank">http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012</a><br>
009><br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:56:14 -0700<br>
From: "Westridge Creative" <<a href="mailto:westridge@montana.com">westridge@montana.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
To: "'Derek Goldman'" <<a href="mailto:derekmgold@hotmail.com">derekmgold@hotmail.com</a>>,<br>
<<a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>>, <<a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <000001c974df$12de0900$0400a8c0@ParkerDell><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Derek and City Council Members:<br>
<br>
I have family in town and will not be able to come to tonight's public<br>
hearing on the cat ordinance changes, but here are my thoughts in regard<br>
to Derek Goldman's last comment.for the record.<br>
<br>
Cats are not dogs. That being said.and being a cat owner who's cat was<br>
shot in the eye a year ago from one of our 'neighbors' at point blank<br>
range, in an effort to kill the cat-even though our cat had a collar on<br>
with our info for contact.<br>
<br>
Here's my point.cats do not recognize fences and yard lines like dogs<br>
and are indeed, more commonly, wilder-as part of their genetic<br>
coding-than dogs-a different species and must be recognized as<br>
such---unless they happen to be fully domesticated inside cats.<br>
<br>
Not all domestics can be treated the same (dogs and cats; horses and<br>
llamas; chickens and parakeets). To legislate that a cat must behave<br>
'like a dog' and not ever wander beyond its property takes the basis of<br>
its true nature out of the animal, which I consider unfair to the<br>
animal. This is not to say your interests to keep your freshly dug<br>
garden beds cat poop free is not an issue-it is, but within constraints<br>
of accepting pets as a part of society and doing what we can to support<br>
the genetic, true nature of many cats while respecting your rights as a<br>
property owner without cats.<br>
<br>
What we've done is 'talk to our neighbors', and given them our cat's<br>
picture and our contact number so if she causes problems, they come to<br>
us, not take out their anger, etc., on an animal just filling its<br>
nature.<br>
<br>
I believe the language you suggest changing should not be altered. We<br>
still must behave as citizens and be responsible, not expect to alter an<br>
animal's genetic codes because we want it so.<br>
<br>
Respectfully, Jim Parker<br>
<br>
<br>
Jim Parker, Owner<br>
WestRidge Creative<br>
PO Box 8492<br>
Missoula, MT 59807<br>
Phone: 406.327.1596<br>
Fax: 406.542.0513<br>
<a href="http://www.westridgecreative.com" target="_blank">www.westridgecreative.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a>] On Behalf Of Derek Goldman<br>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:55 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>; <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
<br>
thanks for the heads up, Bob. Re the cat ordinance:<br>
<br>
I'm not sure why the ammendment proposes to change the definition of a<br>
bothersome cat from "nuisance" to "unnattended." I looked up the dog<br>
ordinance, and bothersome DOGS are indeed referred to as "nuisance." So<br>
why not cats? We should be consistent so as not to send a message that<br>
dogs can be bothersome, but cats cannot be.<br>
<br>
I would also recommend one additional change to close a loophole in the<br>
cat ordinance:<br>
In the definition of a nuisance/unattended cat, please strike the last 4<br>
words of the sentence that requires a cat to be unaltered in order to<br>
fit the definition. If a cat is off it's owner's property, then it may<br>
be causing problems with its neighbors irrespective of its reproductive<br>
status.<br>
Excessive cat breeding is indeed a problem, but it is only one problem<br>
caused by loose cats. Urination and defecation in private and community<br>
gardens, flower beds, compost piles, and under decks, as well as<br>
harassment of native wildlife and other pets also present problems. But<br>
as the ordinance is currently writen, a cat can legally do all these<br>
things as long as it is neutered or spayed. That seems odd (and also<br>
inconsistent with dog ordinance, which lists "defecation..." as one of<br>
the many activities that define a nuisance dog). Please send this back<br>
for reconsideration.<br>
Thanks, Derek Goldman<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_____<br>
<br>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:53:32 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
We have five public hearings scheduled for tomorrow.<br>
Here are some highlights in case anyone wants to come and comment (you<br>
can also comment by sending mail to <a href="mailto:council@ci.missoula.mt.us">council@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>).<br>
<br>
Cats:<br>
<a href="ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf" target="_blank">ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdin<br>
anceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf</a><br>
<<a href="ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1" target="_blank">ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdi<br>
nanceAmendment[1</a>].pdf><br>
<br>
There are a few changes to the ordinance being proposed.<br>
'Nuisance cat' is replaced by 'unattended cat'. An unattended cat is an<br>
unaltered cat off of its owner's property. To be the owner of an<br>
unattended cat is illegal.<br>
A breeding cat is an unaltered cat 4 months old. It used to be six<br>
months.<br>
<br>
It is unlawful to own a pair of unaltered cats of the opposite sex<br>
without a breeders license.<br>
It is unlawful to own more than five cats without a breeders license<br>
(this appears to be the controversial one)<br>
<br>
A breeders license costs $50 and requires an inspection.<br>
<br>
Dogs:<br>
Pet Day Care Centers are defined.<br>
Leashes are required within 200 feet of trailheads.<br>
If an unaltered dog is picked up three times in its life it gets<br>
sterilized. There used to be an option to pay $250 to avoid<br>
sterilization.<br>
The following paragraph is included in the unlawful section:<br>
<br>
For a dog owner to cause, allow, permit, either willfully or by failure<br>
to<br>
exercise due care, to allow a dog to be a nuisance barking dog. EXCEPT:<br>
that such sounds made at animal shelters, commercial kennels, pet<br>
daycare<br>
centers and veterinary hospitals which meet the proper zoning<br>
requirements<br>
2. shall be exempt<br>
<br>
The "Pet Daycare centers" were included in the exemption when it was<br>
originally presented to us. I asked that this be removed. I am hoping to<br>
hear from people on this prior to making a final decision. These<br>
businesses can have a very high impact on their neighbors.<br>
<br>
Park Fees:<br>
General incremental increase in the parks fees. There may be some open<br>
issues on the rate set for the 50 meter pool. There was an expectation<br>
that it would be rented out at full cost this year but I believe the<br>
proposal still has a general fund subsidy.<br>
<br>
Other Public Hearings:<br>
We also have a couple of annexations including the large Linda Vista<br>
Estates subdivision.<br>
<br>
Bob Jaffe<br>
Missoula City Council, Ward 3<br>
<a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a><br>
406-728-1052<br>
<br>
_____<br>
<br>
Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.<br>
<<a href="http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks" target="_blank">http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks</a><br>
_012009><br>
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End of MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35, Issue 3<br>
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