And to take that view a step further. Give me a break. Cats don't bite people, and, while cat's in the flower bed are a pain in the butt, it's dogs, not cats, that defile every available bit of green space with poop, which I then step into and track around. Cats kill songbirds. It's a problem. But dogs? Dogs are exponentially more complicated in a community than cats. The two can't be treated the same. <div>
<br></div><div>And a Happy New Year to you all. Thanks, Bob, for this excellent service. Keep pushing for more bike lanes, Phil. And wow, Jim, whoever shot your cat is a psycho.</div><div><br></div><div>Bob<br><div><div><br>
</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Phil Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:PSmith@ci.missoula.mt.us">PSmith@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">And for a different view, I don't have a cat but I rather enjoy those
which belong to various neighbors and which wander in and out of my yard from
time to time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Phil Smith</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Derek Goldman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 12, 2009 3:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> jim parker; Bob Jaffe; <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings</div></div></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Jim, sorry about your cat--that's horrible!<br>
Maybe I was't clear, though. I don't think cats and dogs need to have ALL the
same rules, but they certainly share at least SOME potentially annoying
behaviors (eg: biting, defecating, harassing wildlife) wouldn't you
say? So, some of those dog rules are still applicable. <br>
Yes, of course, they are different
species, however, the community problems a cat can cause --
like a problem dog -- do not necessarily have anything to do with its
capacity to reproduce. Yet, as the law currently reads, lack of sterility
is the ONLY problem for which there is a legal recourse for neighbors.
That was my main point.<br>
That being said, I agree that just being at-large does not
necessarily imply the cat (or dog, for that matter) is causing a problem.
It's what happens while the animal is at large. Maybe there is some compromise
language we can find here...<br>
Thanks, Derek </span></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#3300CC"> </span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From: <a href="mailto:westridge@montana.com" target="_blank">westridge@montana.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:derekmgold@hotmail.com" target="_blank">derekmgold@hotmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us" target="_blank">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>; <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: RE: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings<br>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:56:14 -0700</span></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Derek and City Council Members:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">I have family in town and will not be able to come to tonight's
public hearing on the cat ordinance changes, but here are my thoughts in regard
to Derek Goldman's last comment…for the record.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Cats are not dogs. That being said…and being a cat owner who's cat
was shot in the eye a year ago from one of our 'neighbors' at point blank
range, in an effort to kill the cat—even though our cat had a collar on with
our info for contact…</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Here's my point…cats do not recognize fences and yard lines like
dogs and are indeed, more commonly, wilder—as part of their genetic coding—than
dogs—a different species and must be recognized as such---unless they happen to
be fully domesticated inside cats.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Not all domestics can be treated the same (dogs and cats; horses
and llamas; chickens and parakeets). To legislate that a cat must behave 'like
a dog' and not ever wander beyond its property takes the basis of its true
nature out of the animal, which I consider unfair to the animal. This is not to
say your interests to keep your freshly dug garden beds cat poop free is not an
issue—it is, but within constraints of accepting pets as a part of society and
doing what we can to support the genetic, true nature of many cats while
respecting your rights as a property owner without cats.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">What we've done is 'talk to our neighbors', and given them our
cat's picture and our contact number so if she causes problems, they come to
us, not take out their anger, etc., on an animal just filling its nature.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">I believe the language you suggest changing should not be altered.
We still must behave as citizens and be responsible, not expect to alter an
animal's genetic codes because we want it so.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Respectfully<span>, Jim</span> Parker</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style="color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Jim Parker, Owner</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">WestRidge Creative</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">PO Box 8492</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Missoula, MT 59807</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Phone: 406.327.1596</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Fax: 406.542.0513</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"><a href="http://www.westridgecreative.com/" target="_blank">www.westridgecreative.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p><span style="color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek Goldman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us" target="_blank">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>; <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"> <span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">thanks for the heads up, Bob. Re the cat
ordinance:<br>
<br>
I'm not sure why the ammendment proposes to change the definition of a
bothersome cat from "nuisance" to "unnattended." I looked
up the dog ordinance, and bothersome DOGS are indeed referred to as
"nuisance." So why not cats? We should be consistent
so as not to send a message that dogs can be bothersome, but cats cannot be.<br>
<br>
I would also recommend one additional change to close a loophole in the cat
ordinance:<br>
In the definition of a nuisance/unattended cat, please strike the last 4 words
of the sentence that requires a cat to be <u>unaltered</u> in order to fit the
definition. If a cat is off it's owner's property, then it may be causing
problems with its neighbors <u>irrespective of its reproductive status.</u><br>
Excessive cat breeding is indeed a problem, but it is only one problem caused
by loose cats. Urination and defecation in private and community gardens,
flower beds, compost piles, and under decks, as well as harassment of
native wildlife and other pets also present problems. But as the ordinance
is currently writen, a cat can legally do all these things as long as it
is neutered or spayed. That seems odd (and also inconsistent with dog
ordinance, which lists "defecation..." as one of the many activities
that define a nuisance dog). Please send this back for reconsideration. <br>
Thanks, Derek Goldman</span></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#3300CC"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div style="margin-left:.5in">
<div align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
</div>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Date:
Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:53:32 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us" target="_blank">BJaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:missoulagov@cmslists.com" target="_blank">missoulagov@cmslists.com</a><br>
Subject: [MissoulaGov] Highlights for Monday's public hearings</span></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">We have five public hearings scheduled for
tomorrow.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Here are some highlights in case anyone
wants to come and comment (you can also comment by sending mail to <a href="mailto:council@ci.missoula.mt.us" target="_blank">council@ci.missoula.mt.us</a>).</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Cats: </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf" target="_blank">ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-12-15/2008CatOrdinanceAmendment%5B1%5D.pdf</a></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">There are a few changes to the ordinance
being proposed. </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">'Nuisance cat' is replaced by 'unattended
cat'. An unattended cat is an unaltered cat off of its owner's property. To be
the owner of an unattended cat is illegal.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">A breeding cat is an unaltered cat 4 months
old. It used to be six months.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">It is unlawful to own a pair of unaltered
cats of the opposite sex without a breeders license.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">It is unlawful to own more than five cats
without a breeders license (this appears to be the controversial one)</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">A breeders license costs $50 and requires
an inspection.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Dogs:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Pet Day Care Centers are defined. </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Leashes are required within 200 feet of
trailheads.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">If an unaltered dog is picked up three
times in its life it gets sterilized. There used to be an option to pay $250 to
avoid sterilization.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The following paragraph is included in the
unlawful section:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">For a dog owner to cause, allow, permit, either willfully or by
failure to</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">exercise due care</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#C95100">, to allow </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">a dog to be a nuisance
barking dog. EXCEPT:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">that such sounds made at animal shelters, commercial kennels</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#C95100">, </span><s><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0101FF">pet
daycare</span></s><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><s><span style="color:#0101FF">centers</span></s><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0101FF"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">and veterinary hospitals </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#008481">which
meet the proper zoning requirements</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#008481">2. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">shall be
exempt</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The "Pet Daycare centers" were included in
the exemption when it was originally presented to us. I asked that this be
removed. I am hoping to hear from people on this prior to making a final decision.
These businesses can have a very high impact on their neighbors.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Park Fees:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">General incremental increase in the parks
fees. There may be some open issues on the rate set for the 50 meter pool.
There was an expectation that it would be rented out at full cost this year but
I believe the proposal still has a general fund subsidy.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Other Public Hearings:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">We also have a couple of annexations
including the large Linda Vista Estates subdivision.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Bob Jaffe</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Missoula City Council, Ward 3</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us" target="_blank">bjaffe@ci.missoula.mt.us</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> 406-728-1052 </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<div style="margin-left:.5in">
<div align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. <a href="http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009" target="_blank">See
how it works.</a></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<div align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Windows
Live™: Keep your life in sync. <a href="http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009" target="_blank">Check it out.</a></span></p>
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