<table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0' ><tr><td valign='top' style='font: inherit;'>Echo two with Brent on costs -- and check out this chart on cement demand to see where a lot of the demand is coming from for construction materials: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4162. Not new news about China but whew!<br><br>On the HHB Roundabout, of course do it right. And we have all heard the frustrating sequence the city has had to go through with the state and liability insurance before being able to finalize right of way purchase and get everything lined up.<br><br>But still ... the Mayor met with the Governor yesterday ... the Governor said yes, we will help you expedite transportation projects and "take machete to some red tape" (Missoulian's description in today's story). And if it saves money (by being able to buy materials now instead of in mid-09), even better. And if it makes safer crossing conditions 6-7 months earlier for kids and
everyone else, even better.<br><br>So here we have a project beautifully teed up to demo a commitment to "getting things done." Is there really no way that with all this consensus, that this can't be done before we get those freezing temps?<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 7/10/08, Brent Campbell <i><BCampbell@wgmgroup.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: Brent Campbell <BCampbell@wgmgroup.com><br>Subject: [MissoulaGov] Construction Costs<br>To: missoulagov@cmslists.com<br>Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 2:50 PM<br><br><pre>I echo Jamie's sentiments on cost inflation and tie that to the HHB<br>Roundabout. We are paying $100 a ton for asphalt and $20 a cubic yard<br>for subgrade gravel these days. Not more than three years ago those<br>costs were about $22 and $4 respectively. If crude oil hits $200 a<br>barrel as some predict, we may not be able to afford
to wait on the<br>roundabout. There also may not be any cars on the road to use it.<br>Fortunately, it will work great for bikes and scooters, three abreast.<br>We will restripe it as a 6 lane bike roundabout like in Davis, CA.<br><br>Brent Campbell, P.E.<br>President / CEO<br>WGM Group, Inc.<br>http://www.wgmgroup.com<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com<br>[mailto:missoulagov-bounces@cmslists.com] On Behalf Of<br>missoulagov-request@cmslists.com<br>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:46 PM<br>To: missoulagov@cmslists.com<br>Subject: MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8<br><br>Send MissoulaGov mailing list submissions to<br> missoulagov@cmslists.com<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> http://www.cmslists.com/mailman/listinfo/missoulagov<br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> missoulagov-request@cmslists.com<br><br>You can reach the person managing the
list at<br> missoulagov-owner@cmslists.com<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than<br>"Re: Contents of MissoulaGov digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Committee Update 7-9-08 (James Hoffmann)<br> 2. Fwd: Committee Update 7-9-08 (Lynn Ascher)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:28:25 -0600<br>From: "James Hoffmann" <jamie@jameshoffmann.com><br>Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 7-9-08<br>To: "Jason Wiener" <JWiener@ci.missoula.mt.us>,<br> <missoulagov@cmslists.com><br>Message-ID: <01a401c8e2cb$833f95c0$0500a8c0@HOFF5><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>I can no longer be silent regarding the criticism of the architectural<br>firm MMW pertaining to the higher costs for their aquatics project. I<br>have been a carpenter, then contractor, and then,
for the past 30 years,<br>an architect in this community. Over that period of time, there has<br>never been a period of time like the last 4 or so years. It used to be<br>that construction cost increase closely tracked the cost of living<br>increase, so that building costs typically rose 4 to 6% on an annualized<br>basis. However, a perfect storm of events, local, national and<br>international, has caused those costs to increase, in my practice's<br>experience, 40% or even more in the last 4 years. Architects, engineers<br>and other design professionals are not soothsayers or magicians, nor can<br>we control the construction cost marketplace. In the recent past it has<br>been very difficult to predict what costs for a project will be 6 or 9<br>months after an estimate is made because the price trajectory has been<br>unprecedented. And we don't know when the inflationary pressure is going<br>to diminish, nor by what amount, nor even if is going to lessen
at all<br>anytime soon. Estimating construction costs makes Vegas look easy. On<br>the one hand the designer does no good service to an owner if he very<br>conservatively over estimates costs, leaving the owner wishing that the<br>design could have been larger, or of better quality. On the other hand,<br>the owner wants the designer to spend every dollar the owner has, but<br>not one dollar more. Its a tight rope walk. An architect is required to<br>do all those things that other architects in the same community would do<br>under the same circumstances. He/she can be considered negligent when<br>the standard of care has not been met. Have those who are publicly<br>criticizing MMW determined that they failed to meet the standard of<br>care? Do they know what that standard is under the current extraordinary<br>circumstances? Those who wish to criticize the performance of design<br>professionals for their failure to meet project budgets would do well
to<br>consult with their fellow institutional purchasers of design services to<br>see how they view this business. The two state univerisities oversee<br>construction worth tens of millions of dollars every year, as does the<br>state architect's office. These institutions have established<br>proceedures to deal with difficult issues such as bids exceeding<br>budgets, change orders, and other circumstances concurrent with building<br>and development. The city's business is too important for us to be<br>inventing the wheel. Jamie Hoffmann<br> ----- Original Message -----<br> From: Jason Wiener<br> To: missoulagov@cmslists.com<br> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:45 AM<br> Subject: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 7-9-08<br><br><br> Bob is on vacation this week so I wrote up the committee meetings<br>today.<br><br> J.<br><br> <br><br> *****<br><br> <br><br> When I was a kid, Nickelodeon ran this show called "You Can't Do<br>That<br>On
Television." In addition to dropping green slime on people when they<br>said "I don't know" and sporting a regular skit with a line-order<br>cook<br>named Booger, the show featured a recurring bit called opposite sketches<br>where the normal order of things would be turned on its head-the stingy<br>would become generous, the refined uncouth. This morning turned out to<br>be opposite-sketch time at 140 W. Pine.<br><br> <br><br> Dave Strohmaier was out for work and Ed Childers and Bob Jaffe were<br>both on vacation which meant Pam Walzer, John Hendrickson, Jon Wilkins,<br>Lyn Hellegaard, Dick Haines, Renee Mitchell and I made up the Public<br>Safety & Health Committee. With the self-style conservative minority<br>firmly in control of the votes, I'd venture to guess we got a taste of<br>their governing style.<br><br> Police Chief Mark Muir and Chief Administrative Officer Bruce Bender<br>presented the first item: an $18,000 contract for cost
estimating with<br>MacArthur Means and Wells (MMW) as the lead architect and police station<br>specialists Wilson Estes providing specialty support. MMW was given the<br>contract by the administration, following on preliminary work they did<br>on the downtown site that everyone seems to prefer. <br><br> <br><br> John Hendrickson raised an issue with the selection of MMW, asking if<br>the project was bid. Dick Haines asserted that the entire project would<br>face an uphill battle because MMW has "zero credibility" because of<br>their work on the aquatics project. They didn't seem bothered by the<br>fact that the job wasn't advertised with an RFP since its size didn't<br>merit that. They just flatly objected to MMW. The principal architect is<br>different and the subcontractors, too, but merely the letters MMW were<br>enough to precipitate some ensuring shenanigans. There was a motion to<br>approve the contract and a call for a show of hands on it. Pam
and I<br>voted in favor. Jon W., Lyn and Renee voted against it while John H.<br>and Dick abstained. Pam tried to call the count 2-3-2 but John H. told<br>Jon W. to change his vote to yes and Jon W. obeyed, making the vote<br>3-2-2. Then John H. changed his vote from abstain to no so the vote<br>would be 3-3-1. The objective was to tie the vote because, under a<br>poorly constructed Council rule, a tie in committee is the only way to<br>keep an item from moving to the Council floor. Of course, we can just<br>take it up next week unless the administration decides to pick another<br>architect for this $18,000 piece of a likely $40 million project. I got<br>frustrated with all the puppeteering and offered to change my vote as<br>well, which prompted John H. to offer to change his back. It finally<br>stopped when City Clerk Marty Rehbein pointed out that minute-taker<br>Lesley Wills had no idea how anyone was voting. We eventually moved on<br>to the other
item, a towing contract extension sent back to committee<br>because it the extension was offered without an RFP. The Police agreed<br>to advertise the RFP and asked for an extension with the existing<br>company in the interim, which the committee agreed to. We came back to<br>the vote on the police station but stand-in chair Pam ended up<br>continuing the item to another meeting because of the obstruction and<br>irresolution.<br><br> <br><br> <br><br><br><br> <br><br> *******<br><br> Jason Wiener, Alderman, Ward One<br><br> 1238 Jackson St.<br><br> Missoula, MT 59802<br><br> (406) 542-3232<br><br> jwiener@ci.missoula.mt.us<br><br> <br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>------<br><br><br> _______________________________________________<br> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.<br>But posts to this list may be entered into the public record. <br> Subscribe
or view archives at Missoulagov.org<br> List Serve hosting provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.<br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL:<br>http://www.cmslists.com/pipermail/missoulagov/attachments/20080710/22ea1<br>478/attachment-0001.htm <br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:45:41 -0600<br>From: Lynn Ascher <lascher01@bresnan.net><br>Subject: [MissoulaGov] Fwd: Committee Update 7-9-08<br>To: missoulagov@cmslists.com<br>Message-ID: <BA085EC0-6521-40F3-844A-2CC6CF5694EB@bresnan.net><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br><br><br><br>Begin forwarded message:<br><br>From: Lynn Ascher <lascher01@bresnan.net><br>Date: July 10, 2008 2:41:05 PM MDT<br>To: "Jason Wiener" <JWiener@ci.missoula.mt.us><br>Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 7-9-08<br><br>This roundabout has been in process for literally years.
There's never<br>going to be a "perfect" time for its construction so let's get it<br>done<br>as soon as we can, i.e., fall '08. Any more delays and I can see the<br>project becoming increasingly problematic and finally vanishing<br>altogether as more and more people suddenly discover they have issues<br>with it. I'm sure that drivers will find alternate routes to use during<br>the 6-8 weeks of construction, and that crossing guards will be on hand<br>to help kids and pedestrians navigate crossing Higgins on one side or<br>the other of the construction.<br>-- lynn<br><br><br>On Jul 10, 2008, at 12:45 AM, Jason Wiener wrote:<br><br>Bob is on vacation this week so I wrote up the committee meetings today.<br><br>J.<br><br><br><br>*****<br><br><br><br>When I was a kid, Nickelodeon ran this show called ?You Can?t Do That On<br>Television.? In addition to dropping green slime on people when they<br>said ?I don?t know? and sporting a regular skit with a
line- order cook<br>named Booger, the show featured a recurring bit called opposite sketches<br>where the normal order of things would be turned on its head?the stingy<br>would become generous, the refined uncouth. This morning turned out to<br>be opposite-sketch time at 140 W. Pine.<br><br><br><br>Dave Strohmaier was out for work and Ed Childers and Bob Jaffe were both<br>on vacation which meant Pam Walzer, John Hendrickson, Jon Wilkins, Lyn<br>Hellegaard, Dick Haines, Renee Mitchell and I made up the Public Safety<br>& Health Committee. With the self-style conservative minority firmly in<br>control of the votes, I?d venture to guess we got a taste of their<br>governing style.<br><br>Police Chief Mark Muir and Chief Administrative Officer Bruce Bender<br>presented the first item: an $18,000 contract for cost estimating with<br>MacArthur Means and Wells (MMW) as the lead architect and police station<br>specialists Wilson Estes providing specialty
support. MMW was given the<br>contract by the administration, following on preliminary work they did<br>on the downtown site that everyone seems to prefer.<br><br><br><br>John Hendrickson raised an issue with the selection of MMW, asking if<br>the project was bid. Dick Haines asserted that the entire project would<br>face an uphill battle because MMW has "zero credibility" <br>because of their work on the aquatics project. They didn?t seem bothered<br>by the fact that the job wasn?t advertised with an RFP since its size<br>didn?t merit that. They just flatly objected to MMW. The principal<br>architect is different and the subcontractors, too, but merely the<br>letters MMW were enough to precipitate some ensuring shenanigans. There<br>was a motion to approve the contract and a call for a show of hands on<br>it. Pam and I voted in favor. Jon W., Lyn and Renee voted against it<br>while John H. and Dick abstained. Pam tried to call the count 2-3-2
but<br>John H. told Jon W. to change his vote to yes and Jon W. obeyed, making<br>the vote 3-2-2. Then John H. changed his vote from abstain to no so the<br>vote would be 3-3-1. The objective was to tie the vote because, under a<br>poorly constructed Council rule, a tie in committee is the only way to<br>keep an item from moving to the Council floor. Of course, we can just<br>take it up next week unless the administration decides to pick another<br>architect for this $18,000 piece of a likely $40 million project. I got<br>frustrated with all the puppeteering and offered to change my vote as<br>well, which prompted John H. to offer to change his back. It finally<br>stopped when City Clerk Marty Rehbein pointed out that minute-taker<br>Lesley Wills had no idea how anyone was voting. We eventually moved on<br>to the other item, a towing contract extension sent back to committee<br>because it the extension was offered without an RFP. The Police agreed<br>to
advertise the RFP and asked for an extension with the existing<br>company in the interim, which the committee agreed to. We came back to<br>the vote on the police station but stand-in chair Pam ended up<br>continuing the item to another meeting because of the obstruction and<br>irresolution.<br><br><br><br>PAZ followed, albeit starting late because of PS&H?s pile-up. We talked<br>about the Office of Planning & Grants Urban Initiatives task list for<br>the next fiscal year, which lays out the non-project priorities of the<br>department. The biggest tasks (with hours<br>allocated) were as follows: zoning revision (2400 hrs), application of<br>UFDA work including a plan for Orchard Homes (2000 hrs with the county<br>collaborating), Mayor's Housing Initiative (1000 hrs). The whole list is<br>here: ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/<br>2008/2008-07-07/UITaskList.pdf<br><br><br><br>Everything in the plan was funded except for a revision to
the<br>Rattlesnake Comprehensive Plan. Partly in response to some development<br>pressure on unzoned land, a group from the Rattlesnake, including people<br>from both Neighborhood Councils has been working to update its 1995 plan<br>to create tools that would inform resource decisions on specific<br>land-use matters and highlight missing infrastructure. The item was<br>assigned 2000 hours by a scope of work drawn up this year. Pretty much<br>everyone agrees that?s too much time but right now none of it is funded<br>anyway. The people in that area are looking for money outside<br>government. I?d like to see a fraction of the money and staff time made<br>available by the city so the community can leverage it. Otherwise, the<br>community people working on this will have wasted many hours and, after<br>having their hopes raised by OPG drawing up a scope of work, their<br>cynicism will simply be stoked by the lack of any movement on it. Other<br>areas of the
city are under greater development pressure, of course, and<br>I recognize the need to prioritize based on need. I think desire,<br>expressed with genuine grassroots effort, should also merit support.<br><br><br><br>About an hour was left for a discussion of stacking lots. Roger Millar<br>from OPG made a presentation about the practice, which allows the<br>redrawing of lot lines in established subdivisions without undergoing<br>subdivision review as long as the number of lots after the redrawing is<br>no greater than before and the parcels, buildings, setbacks, etc.<br>conform to zoning. If the stacking results in lots arranged under a PNC,<br>the requirement that the redrawn parcel conforms to zoning doesn?t mean<br>that they have to meet minimum lot size, setback and the like for the<br>existing zoning because the PNC is a zoning regulation. At least that?s<br>what I took away. If you are interested in the intricacies, you can<br>download the
presentation (over 3 MB) at<br>www.jasonwienerforcouncil.org/stacking.ppt<br><br><br><br>Most of the Council questions, and all the public comment, centered on<br>the Lincoln School, a historic school that?s being converted to what<br>looks a lot like a 13-lot subdivision using the planned neighborhood<br>cluster tool. Very quickly, familiar sounding complaints about PNCs,<br>zoning overlays, and neighborhood protest filled the committee room.<br>None of it had much to do with Roger?s suggestion on how Council could<br>rewrite local subdivision regulations so future attempts at stacking<br>would have to go through subdivision review. <br>Even if we did adopt his suggestion, there are a number of other<br>loopholes in state law that would probably still allow such projects to<br>be exempt from subdivision review, like condominium ownership. <br>Some of the rhetoric got overheated; at one point the Lincoln School<br>project was compared to murder, at
another a puss-oozing blight. So I<br>was surprised when we ended early. During public testimony, which<br>stand-in chair Marilyn Marler limited to three minutes so everyone could<br>speak, Lee Clemensen took more than twice her allotted time, ignoring<br>four-minute and six-minute warning and ultimately refusing to yield the<br>microphone. Without a sergeant-at-arms to enforce the chair?s ruling,<br>Marilyn adjourned the meeting at that point. It was the right move, in<br>my opinion, but, regrettably, two people who wanted to testify were not<br>allowed. Odds are good that they wouldn't have gotten to anyway because<br>of the filibustering.<br><br><br><br>I was glad lunch time had arrived. We accomplished precious little<br>during the morning but expended plenty of energy.<br><br><br><br>After lunch, A&F met briefly to set a public hearing on park maintenance<br>districts. There are two on the south side of town and the assessments<br>fund the
improvements instead of the general fund. It is an unusual<br>arrangement but no one had an issue with it. I guess someone could voice<br>one at the public hearing though.<br><br><br><br>In Public Works, we approved a pair of purchases for sewer and streets.<br>We also approved an encroachment permit for an alley skywalk between the<br>current Garlington Lohn and Robinson building at 199 W. <br>Pine St. and their new building, planned for 138 W. Broadway, where<br>Scooterville currently is. (Someone in a position to know tells me<br>Scooterville is eyeing the proposed green mall as a new location. <br>They were offered ground-floor retail in Garlington?s new building but<br>need to locate somewhere during the year that will take to build<br>anyway.) The skyway plans call for more than just a connection between<br>buildings, with the skyway to contain a conference room and break room.<br>We talked about the criteria for approving the request since
there is<br>only one skywalk in Missoula, between the Palace Apartments and Central<br>Park. Basically, there is no entitlement to encroach so the decision is<br>discretionary. We aren?t setting a binding precedent by saying yes. The<br>vote in favor of the permit was unanimous but the architect will be<br>available Monday if there are questions. Some plans are visible at<br>ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/<br>packets/council/2008/2008-07-07/Referrals/ROWEncroachSkywlkPlan.pdf<br><br><br><br>The final item was a discussion of the interminable Higgins-Hill-<br>Beckwith construction project. Delays in acquiring right-of-way in front<br>of the Grizzly Grocery have pushed the project to a schedule where<br>construction could not begin until late fall. That?s frustrating, of<br>course, because this project has been going on for a long time. It also<br>means the project should probably wait until spring. If construction<br>doesn?t begin until the fall, the 45-day
schedule could be interrupted<br>by winter weather, which is highly undesirable since the finished<br>product is a bit of a prototype in Missoula. Steve King and Kevin<br>Slovarp from Public Works said MDT wants the project to be built first<br>thing in the spring, April 15. <br>This will mean closing the intersection for over six weeks while school<br>is in session and detouring the traffic associated with the street and<br>Paxson School through the neighborhood. The alternative is waiting until<br>school lets out to start construction, which adds uncertainty to the<br>cost of the project because the bigger the gap between bidding and<br>construction, the greater contingency a contractor is likely to insist<br>on for changes in material costs. <br>Stacy expressed a preference for waiting until school is out but there<br>was no vote on the matter as it is an administrative decision. <br>I?m inclined to defer to the ward reps but would like to hear
from<br>people in the area about their preferences for construction: fall 08,<br>spring 09 or summer 09.<br><br><br><br>We looked at the BID budget in Budget Committee of the Whole. They are<br>enjoying a lot of success, winning over even people who thought the<br>district?funded assessments on downtown property owners?was a bad idea<br>when it was created. The clean team and downtown ambassadors have done a<br>lot to help with that. Success with Downtown Master Plan is likely the<br>linchpin of renewing the BID when it comes up for renewal, which will be<br>in the next 12-18 months if I am not mistaken.<br><br><br><br>We also finished up Parks. Marilyn asked that we come back later to an<br>item funding various management plans, beginning with Conservation<br>Lands, continuing on through Turf Management, which is probably as far<br>through the list as Parks can expect to get in one year. The<br>Conservation Plan came in as the top priority because turf
has good<br>science associated with it and public buy-in for the techniques<br>indicated. Conservation lands management needs more original work and<br>includes a public process to determine how to balance tolerance for<br>pesticide and antipathy toward noxious weeds or the desires of<br>recreational users with the health of the land. A half-dozen new<br>requests were turned down ? the list of funded and unfunded new requests<br>in the budget is at ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us//Documents/<br>Council_Review_Budget_FY09/New%20Requests%20From%20All%20Departments%<br>20FY%2009-ForCouncil.xls ? including one to keep good behaviors at the<br>skate park by hiring some young people to be good role models by wearing<br>helmets, doing awesome tricks, and living clean. Apparently, this was a<br>strategy that historically succeeded in roller rinks. <br>Marilyn remembered the people in the roller rink of her youth who fit<br>this profile and was shocked to learn
they were likely planted. It seems<br>like a good idea and not too expensive. It would be nice to fund but<br>there?s unlikely to be enough money this year since the item is<br>currently unfunded. That wrapped up Parks although we will be returning<br>for Marilyn?s conservation lands discussion and Stacy?s request that we<br>revisit the Park Maintenance budget, which was reduced by over half,<br>meaning that improvements at several existing parks will not be funded<br>id the status quo prevails.<br><br><br><br>Finally, we considered non-departmental budget items, including the<br>legislative agenda ($27,500 for a lobbyist, intern and expenses). <br>There was money for a legislative reception in there; Mayor Engen<br>estimated about half the delegation comes down to hear from Council and<br>administration. I hope we rate better than 50% attendance next time. How<br>the state behaves or doesn?t is critical to how well the city serves its<br>constituents.
We also discussed the city?s pay structure for non-union<br>employees, including how cost-of-living adjustments (3%) and step<br>increases (2%) for employees making below the midpoint for their pay<br>grade, which reflects pay in similar cities, combine to keep city<br>employees interested in working with us. <br>There was also some discussion about a plan to add skill/competency-<br>based pay. It was ensconced in a bunch of bureaucratese that translates<br>the sensible substantive goal of paying people for adding skills into a<br>neutral procedure for figuring out when that has happened. We also<br>talked about taking a look at the distribution of salaries again down<br>the line, since the last salary survey was completed in 2004. Probably,<br>there will be a referral on that when budget season winds down.<br><br><br><br>There will be a special budget hearing Thursday night from 7-9 p.m. <br>in City Council Chambers. We will be discussing the
remainder of the<br>non-departmental items, everything from the Missoula Cultural Council to<br>the Missoula Area Economic Development Corporation to the Missoula<br>Ravalli Transportation Management Association.<br><br><br><br>Thanks for your interest.<br><br><br><br>*******<br><br>Jason Wiener, Alderman, Ward One<br><br>1238 Jackson St.<br><br>Missoula, MT 59802<br><br>(406) 542-3232<br><br>jwiener@ci.missoula.mt.us<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula. <br>But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.<br>Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org List Serve hosting<br>provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.<br><br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL:<br>http://www.cmslists.com/pipermail/missoulagov/attachments/20080710/af710<br>ba0/attachment.htm
<br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula. But<br>posts to this list may be entered into the public record. <br>Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org List Serve hosting<br>provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com. <br><br>End of MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8<br>******************************************<br>_______________________________________________<br>Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula. But posts<br>to this list may be entered into the public record. <br>Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org <br>List Serve hosting provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.</pre></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>