No subject

Sun Sep 13 11:38:11 MDT 2009

ng targeted by this ordinance. There are the destitute homeless folks who j=
ust plain need help. Their lives are a train wreck and many of them will pr=
obably never be functional members of society regardless of the programs an=
d assistance they are given.  Some percentage of the population will always=
 be in this state.  Then there are the folks described by our downtown amba=
ssador today as =93rebels.=94 They are the younger transient crowd who choo=
se to live on the fringe of society.
To be honest=2C the =91rebels=92 are the ones I worry about. The guy passed=
 out on the sidewalk makes me sad and a little uncomfortable=2C but not sca=
red.=20
=20
My amendment passed with Dave=2C Jason=2C Pam=2C Ed and I voting in favor. =
Renee=2C Dick=2C and Jon Wilkins voting against.  Arguments from Jon were a=
long the lines that there are rules in society and these people need to fol=
low them. We offer various assistance programs. They should avail themselve=
s of these programs. Just because they don=92t=2C doesn=92t mean we should =
let them sit around on the sidewalk. Dick=92s perspective was along the lin=
es that by allowing them to sleep on the sidewalk we are enabling them. I d=
isagree with most of this. There would be some merit to Jon=92s argument if=
 we offered adequate care=2C treatment=2C or resources for homeless with me=
ntal illness and chemical dependency problems. But even if we did=2C there =
would still be people who just would not go along with the program. So even=
 if our society offered the resources the problem would still exist=2C but =
maybe at a level the shoppers could tolerate. I also think Dick=92s argumen=
t would work with some folks. If we made it even harder for the homeless to=
 exist=2C some of them may find the wherewithal to become productive functi=
oning members of society. But many of them would probably just sink even lo=
wer.
=20
What I heard from the business owners is that they don=92t care why they ar=
e homeless or what happens to them. They are tired of dealing with the fall=
out that comes from these folks being concentrated in the downtown. I expec=
t to see a lot of the business owners at the council meeting on Monday. I a=
lso expect to see folks from the social services community. What I=92m hopi=
ng is that we will also see folks who are willing to speak about how they l=
ove our downtown and think it is a great place to work=2C shop=2C and live.=
 All this harping on the one negative thing about downtown can=92t be the b=
est thing for business. If I remember right=2C Scott Sproull produced data =
that showed a decline in business that directly corresponded with the hoopl=
a about the supposed lack of parking downtown.  So if you prefer the downto=
wn to the mall and the box stores=2C please let our business owners know. T=
hey seem to have an inferiority complex when they look to the other retail =
centers in town. Go spend some money and let them know they are part of wha=
t makes this community so great.
=20
In Conservation we learned about a new conservation easement being purchase=
d way up Miller Creek with open space bond money.  It is the 207 acre Ander=
son Ranch. We are putting in $25=2C000 and the county is putting in $175=2C=
000.  Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is putting the deal together and will h=
old the easement.  The easement was appraised at $1=2C800=2C000. The proper=
ty is a working ranch and a critical piece of  the wildlife corridor from t=
he Sapphires to the Bitterroots. Here are more details: http://www.ci.misso=
ula.mt.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3D2305
=20
In PAZ we mostly discussed the Sonata Park findings of fact. This is a subd=
ivision up at the end of the west side of the Rattlesnake. We approved it t=
wo years ago. The neighbors sued us. The judge said we needed to specify ou=
r reasons for why we approved it based on what was in the record. He didn=
=92t want to have to wade through the hundreds of pages of documents. So St=
aff waded through it all and distilled it down to about twenty pages of arg=
uments that were made during the process. We need to review this and add an=
ything we can think of and then adopt it as our findings of fact.  We can=
=92t change anything about the decision=2C we can only provide explanation =
for why we made it.
=20
In A&F we did some misc. budget stuff. Nothing too exciting.
=20
Public Works had a couple of interesting items. We discussed a parking encr=
oachment permit for the project at 420 Nora street. The developer has made =
some changes to their project and now needs more parking to comply with zon=
ing.  So they are asking the city to essentially vacate right of way so the=
y can meet their parking requirement.  The public works department is not s=
o hot on giving away the public right of way unless we are absolutely sure =
there is nothing we will ever need it for. It turned out the developer was =
not notified that this was going to be on our agenda so we held it over for=
 another week so we could hear what they have to say.
We also heard about the plan to reduce fuel use by the city in response to =
our resolution to cut fuel use by 10%.  What we learned is that over the la=
st few years the city has done a lot to reduce our energy needs. There are =
some departments that will be easier to find gains in than others. The heav=
y equipment use is based on the weather. If there is snow=2C we plow and it=
 uses diesel.=20
We also agreed to change the target date for compliance from 1/1/2011 to 7/=
1/2011. Aligning it with our fiscal year will simplify the accounting and d=
ocumentation.=20
Here is a link to the report:
   http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3D2308
=20
=20
Thanks for your interest=2C
=20
=20
Bob Jaffe
Missoula City Council=2C Ward 3
1225 South 2nd West
Missoula=2C MT 59801
(406) 728-1052
=20
Messages and attachments sent to or from this e-mail account pertaining to =
City business may be considered public or private records depending on the =
message content. The City is often required by law to provide public record=
s to individuals requesting them. The City is also required by law to prote=
ct private=2C confidential information. This message is intended for the us=
e of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended reci=
pient of this transmission=2C please notify the sender immediately=2C do no=
t forward the message to anyone=2C and delete all copies. Thank you 		 	   =
		 =20
Bing=99  brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place. Tr=
y it now. 		 	   		  =0A=
_________________________________________________________________=0A=
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing=99 now=0A=
http://www.bing.com?form=3DMFEHPG&publ=3DWLHMTAG&crea=3DTEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta=
gline_try bing_1x1=

--_37713e66-0f3b-43d5-974d-f98146dba586_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Verdana
}
--></style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Jon it is unfortunate that some homeless people do not take advantage of th=
e things available. However I think we have to recognize that they may not =
want too=2C or may not be able to follow the rules to do so=2C and are not =
required too. Do I wish that homeless were more involved in the programs of=
fered
well=2C yes and no. I wish they pursued their interest=3B aspired to refine
themselves in some way. That to me is the tragedy. I could care less if
they are "productive members of society" or any other social construct
that seems to be the law. There are some that do not fit in but if you feel=
 strongly like helping those who are trying to do something constructive - =
be it a job or making hobo art - you may have to pick and choose who you he=
lp. A good friend of mine works at the Pov and he deals with people that ar=
e rude but does not have to extend his help to those that rudely=2C threate=
ningly=2C demand this or that. There is just no reason on a personal basis =
to tolerate it- so don't - which means not marrying your ideas or behaviors=
 toward them as a demographic but instead as individuals. <br><br>Also unti=
l enforcement happens how many sidewalk dwellers are up to date on city cou=
ncil affairs=2C including city ordinances? How many years would it take for=
 word to spread that Missoula is a horrible place to be down and out in=2C =
homeless? The truth is even if that battle was to be fought frankly it woul=
d never end. Why choose and endless battle when there are so many to be add=
ressed that can be changed? Safe to say I do not think a compromise would d=
o much either.<br><br>I support local business and wish the best to them. F=
unny though because I can only afford to buy anything at a handful of them =
(otherwise I just do not buy the stuff new=2C I do not attend box stores). =
I think we should live in a society where people can afford to shop local t=
hough so I will support them in general. However based on the feedback here=
 I am confused. Who is complaining about the homeless in particular? There =
seems to be mixed things coming from all directions. Is it just the busines=
s owners that hear from customers? They are still customers in that case=2C=
 it seems. I also think if an ordinance is passed it should require store o=
wners to politely ask the homeless people to move before they have the righ=
t to involve police because the homeless are individuals and may respond to=
 friendly requests. <br><br>Perhaps instead of making this such a strong e-=
mail conversation people interested in doing something about the homeless s=
hould go talk to the offenders and find out where they would rather go=2C o=
r if they are just human and want to be near other humans but are not toler=
ated in the bars. Not one e-mail I have seen has quoted a single homeless p=
erson. They are the homeless so maybe if we consider this a free and democr=
atic state their thoughts should be considered or represented in some way. =
<br><br>Also Colleen brings up a great point=2C where exactly is the ideas =
of dangerous homeless coming up? Have they been using their tools as weapon=
s? I feel infinitely more threatened by cars potential for destruction and =
death than I do homeless. The only person I have come across in Missoula th=
at I thought had any potential for violence was at a Caras park event=2C wa=
s not of homeless variety=2C but clearly smoked meth or something. That is =
it for a span of five years. Colleen also pointed out the diversity=2C mayb=
e she meant it in a positive way. I feel the diversity makes downtown the p=
lace to be so I will say it is a positive thing even if some aspects are no=
t always good. I did come across a woman with what appeared to be a rather =
hurt arm=2C and asking for money for surgery. Yeah I felt like health care =
should be here by now=2C at that moment.<br><br>I want to thank you Bob J. =
It is nice to know a city councilman is watching out for everyone.<br><br><=
br><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: jonview at msn.com<br>To: bjaffe at ci.missoula.=
mt.us=3B missoulagov at cmslists.com<br>Date: Thu=2C 1 Oct 2009 21:17:20 +0000=
<br>Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 9-30-09<br><br>

<style>
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P
{padding:0px=3B}
.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage
{font-size:10pt=3Bfont-family:Verdana=3B}
</style>

Bob&nbsp=3B you don't listen well I did not hear any one say they did not c=
are about the homeless. My comments is that missoula does care we do have m=
any programs for our homeless. I have ben involed many times. Threw scout w=
here we served dinner at the pov. collected socks gloves and gave them out =
downtown. the ywca works with Homeless word Housing Authority. Churches. Ju=
st to name a few. there are many more including downtown Business. Can we d=
o more yes What do you do to help? No sleeping on sidewalk is important for=
 the well being of downtown not only for the businesses also for the people=
 that live there. 12 ft is not going to help if any thing it will make it w=
orse. lets think about Missoula. Iam not a good writer or speller&nbsp=3B i=
f you want to know more on this or what ever please feel free to call me Jo=
n Wilkins360-7997<br>&nbsp=3B<br>
<hr id=3D"ecxstopSpelling">
From: BJaffe at ci.missoula.mt.us<br>To: missoulagov at cmslists.com<br>Date: Wed=
=2C 30 Sep 2009 23:54:11 -0600<br>Subject: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 9=
-30-09<br><br>
<style>
.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoNormal=2C .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoNormal=2C .Externa=
lClass div.ecxMsoNormal
{margin-bottom:.0001pt=3Bfont-size:11.0pt=3Bfont-family:'Calibri'=2C'sans-s=
erif'=3B}
.ExternalClass a:link=2C .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlink
{color:blue=3Btext-decoration:underline=3B}
.ExternalClass a:visited=2C .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple=3Btext-decoration:underline=3B}
.ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle17
{font-family:'Calibri'=2C'sans-serif'=3Bcolor:windowtext=3B}
.ExternalClass .ecxMsoChpDefault
{=3B}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in=3B}
.ExternalClass div.ecxSection1
{page:Section1=3B}
</style>

<div class=3D"ecxecxSection1">
Greetings=2C
&nbsp=3B
In Public Safety this morning we took up the P=
edestrian Interference Ordinance.&nbsp=3B 
<a href=3D"http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Docume=
ntView.aspx?DID=3D2185">http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=
=3D2185</a>
The existing ordinance restricts people from b=
locking the sidewalk.&nbsp=3B The amended language we were considering woul=
d also make it illegal to sleep or lie down on the sidewalk even if you are=
 not interfering with pedestrians.&nbsp=3B I moved to amend the language to=
 say that people could not lie or sleep on the sidewalk within 12 feet of t=
he entrance to a business.&nbsp=3B I thought this was a good compromise tha=
t addresses the issue of people feeling impeded from entering a business bu=
t does not make it illegal for homeless people to exist in public. The room=
 was full of downtown business owners who really want us to pass an ordinan=
ce that will make the homeless people disappear. I sympathize with them. Re=
tail is really challenging. There is a lot of competition and little things=
 can win or lose customers. I do my best to support our downtown businesses=
=2C both on council and with my wallet. But I=92m not going to vote to crim=
inalize homelessness. 
From what I=92ve seen and what I hear=2C there=
 are two groups of people being targeted by this ordinance. There are the d=
estitute homeless folks who just plain need help. Their lives are a train w=
reck and many of them will probably never be functional members of society =
regardless of the programs and assistance they are given.&nbsp=3B Some perc=
entage of the population will always be in this state.&nbsp=3B Then there a=
re the folks described by our downtown ambassador today as =93rebels.=94 Th=
ey are the younger transient crowd who choose to live on the fringe of soci=
ety.
To be honest=2C the =91rebels=92 are the ones =
I worry about. The guy passed out on the sidewalk makes me sad and a little=
 uncomfortable=2C but not scared. 
&nbsp=3B
My amendment passed with Dave=2C Jason=2C Pam=
=2C Ed and I voting in favor. Renee=2C Dick=2C and Jon Wilkins voting again=
st.&nbsp=3B Arguments from Jon were along the lines that there are rules in=
 society and these people need to follow them. We offer various assistance =
programs. They should avail themselves of these programs. Just because they=
 don=92t=2C doesn=92t mean we should let them sit around on the sidewalk. D=
ick=92s perspective was along the lines that by allowing them to sleep on t=
he sidewalk we are enabling them. I disagree with most of this. There would=
 be some merit to Jon=92s argument if we offered adequate care=2C treatment=
=2C or resources for homeless with mental illness and chemical dependency p=
roblems. But even if we did=2C there would still be people who just would n=
ot go along with the program. So even if our society offered the resources =
the problem would still exist=2C but maybe at a level the shoppers could to=
lerate. I also think Dick=92s argument would work with some folks. If we ma=
de it even harder for the homeless to exist=2C some of them may find the wh=
erewithal to become productive functioning members of society. But many of =
them would probably just sink even lower.
&nbsp=3B
What I heard from the business owners is that =
they don=92t care why they are homeless or what happens to them. They are t=
ired of dealing with the fallout that comes from these folks being concentr=
ated in the downtown. I expect to see a lot of the business owners at the c=
ouncil meeting on Monday. I also expect to see folks from the social servic=
es community. What I=92m hoping is that we will also see folks who are will=
ing to speak about how they love our downtown and think it is a great place=
 to work=2C shop=2C and live. All this harping on the one negative thing ab=
out downtown can=92t be the best thing for business. If I remember right=2C=
 Scott Sproull produced data that showed a decline in business that directl=
y corresponded with the hoopla about the supposed lack of parking downtown.=
 &nbsp=3BSo if you prefer the downtown to the mall and the box stores=2C pl=
ease let our business owners know. They seem to have an inferiority complex=
 when they look to the other retail centers in town. Go spend some money an=
d let them know they are part of what makes this community so great.
&nbsp=3B
In Conservation we learned about a new conserv=
ation easement being purchased way up Miller Creek with open space bond mon=
ey.&nbsp=3B It is the 207 acre Anderson Ranch. We are putting in $25=2C000 =
and the county is putting in $175=2C000.&nbsp=3B Rocky Mountain Elk Foundat=
ion is putting the deal together and will hold the easement.&nbsp=3B The ea=
sement was appraised at $1=2C800=2C000. The property is a working ranch and=
 a critical piece of &nbsp=3Bthe wildlife corridor from the Sapphires to th=
e Bitterroots. Here are more details: <a href=3D"http://www.ci.missoula.mt.=
us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3D2305">http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/DocumentView.=
aspx?DID=3D2305</a>
&nbsp=3B
In PAZ we mostly discussed the Sonata Park fin=
dings of fact. This is a subdivision up at the end of the west side of the =
Rattlesnake. We approved it two years ago. The neighbors sued us. The judge=
 said we needed to specify our reasons for why we approved it based on what=
 was in the record. He didn=92t want to have to wade through the hundreds o=
f pages of documents. So Staff waded through it all and distilled it down t=
o about twenty pages of arguments that were made during the process. We nee=
d to review this and add anything we can think of and then adopt it as our =
findings of fact.&nbsp=3B We can=92t change anything about the decision=2C =
we can only provide explanation for why we made it.
&nbsp=3B
In A&amp=3BF we did some misc. budget stuff. N=
othing too exciting.
&nbsp=3B
Public Works had a couple of interesting items=
. We discussed a parking encroachment permit for the project at 420 Nora st=
reet. The developer has made some changes to their project and now needs mo=
re parking to comply with zoning.&nbsp=3B So they are asking the city to es=
sentially vacate right of way so they can meet their parking requirement.&n=
bsp=3B The public works department is not so hot on giving away the public =
right of way unless we are absolutely sure there is nothing we will ever ne=
ed it for. It turned out the developer was not notified that this was going=
 to be on our agenda so we held it over for another week so we could hear w=
hat they have to say.
We also heard about the plan to reduce fuel us=
e by the city in response to our resolution to cut fuel use by 10%.&nbsp=3B=
 What we learned is that over the last few years the city has done a lot to=
 reduce our energy needs. There are some departments that will be easier to=
 find gains in than others. The heavy equipment use is based on the weather=
. If there is snow=2C we plow and it uses diesel. 
We also agreed to change the target date for c=
ompliance from 1/1/2011 to 7/1/2011. Aligning it with our fiscal year will =
simplify the accounting and documentation. 
Here is a link to the report:
&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B&nbsp=3B<a href=3D"http://www.=
ci.missoula.mt.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3D2308">http://www.ci.missoula.mt.u=
s/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3D2308</a>
&nbsp=3B
&nbsp=3B
Thanks for your interest=2C
&nbsp=3B
&nbsp=3B
Bob Jaffe
Missoula City Council=2C Ward 3
1225 South 2nd West
Missoula=2C MT 59801
(406) 728-1052
&nbsp=3B</div>
Messages=
 and attachments sent to or from this e-mail account pertaining to City bus=
iness may be considered public or private records depending on the message =
content. The City is often required by law to provide public records to ind=
ividuals requesting them. The City is also required by law to protect priva=
te=2C confidential information. This message is intended for the use of the=
 individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient of=
 this transmission=2C please notify the sender immediately=2C do not forwar=
d the message to anyone=2C and delete all copies. Thank you 		 	=
 		 <hr>Bing=99 brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized i=
n one place. <a href=3D"http://www.bing.com/search?q=3Drestaurants&amp=3Bfo=
rm=3DMLOGEN&amp=3Bpubl=3DWLHMTAG&amp=3Bcrea=3DTEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_loca=
l_1x1">Try it now.</a> 		 	 		 <hr />Microsoft brings you a new wa=
y to search the web. <a href=3D'http://www.bing.com?form=3DMFEHPG&publ=3DWL=
HMTAG&crea=3DTEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1' target=3D'_new'>Try Bi=
ng=99 now</a></body>
</html>=

--_37713e66-0f3b-43d5-974d-f98146dba586_--