[MissoulaGov] [Missoula Gov] Civil Discourse... andmyneighborhood.

[Marilyn Marler]

Yikes, Paul, I suggest you visit the 1700 block of 11th Street before you 
make that comment again.

I'm not comfortable writing much detail on this list serv, but I have talked 
with Mark Muir about this specific situation, and with various veterans' 
groups and agencies in town, as well as the Msla Co Mental Health Dept. 
Short story: the problem still exists.  It is complicated and sad and I hope 
it doesn't result in a tragedy.  Anyone, please feel to contact me off list 
about this. Marilyn Marler


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Sopko" <psopko at peoplepc.com>
To: <hdgray at modwest.com>; "JOHN WOLVERTON" <yodelingdog at hotmail.com>
Cc: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] [Missoula Gov] Civil Discourse... 
andmyneighborhood.



> Sounds like the behavior we've experienced in the past from homes in our

> immediate neighborhood occupied by multiple 18-21 year-olds. Maybe not to

> the extent that Dave describes, but the resultant atmosphere is similar.

>

> Paul S.

>

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: <hdgray at modwest.com>

> To: "JOHN WOLVERTON" <yodelingdog at hotmail.com>

> Cc: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>

> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:06 PM

> Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] [Missoula Gov] Civil Discourse... and

> myneighborhood.

>

>

>> Hello Everyone,

>>

>> I don't know how I missed out on this one.  Mr. Reed lives on my block 

>> and

>> I am one of the Neighbors affected by him.

>>

>> Lets see where do I start:

>> 1. My children are afraid to use the city sidewalks in front of his home

>> because of his behavior.

>> 2. Mike has screamed at my children's' baby sitter when she was riding 

>> her

>> bike home, which has put her on her guard when she passes his home.

>> 3. I know of two different owners of the adjacent home that have moved 

>> out

>> of the neighborhood because of Mikes actions.

>> 4. He has rusty nails protruding from boards wired to the top of his 

>> front

>> yard fence that only face his property because the neighbors push them

>> away from the sidewalks.

>> 5. He sprays round-up in the boulevard to kill the grass and encourage

>> weeds instead.

>> 6. He piled garbage in his front yard to specifically upset his closest

>> neighbor. You notice it is only on one side.

>> 7. I have had to call the police on Mike once or twice since living on 

>> the

>> block because of his fits of anger and violence at night.  He screams

>> profanities at the top of his lungs and beat a car parked on the street

>> with enough force to wake my wife and I up with our windows closed 150 to

>> 200 feet away.

>> 8. Refuse is now finding it way into the street and boulevard in front of

>> Mikes home.  Gee I wonder where it came from?

>> 9. The political signs attached to his house are now starting to blow

>> around the block as they deteriorate in the weather.

>> 10. He is known to burn garbage and motor oil in a barrel in his backyard

>> and has been confronted by one neighbor affected by it.

>> 11. His closest neighbor would have filed assault charges against him for

>> beating on his fence late at night outside her window and placing signs 

>> on

>> her side of his home if she was not a police officer, I am sure.  Since a

>> lot of his anger seams to be directed specifically at her.

>> 12. He paints profanity on the front and side of his house for all of the

>> neighbors to enjoy. Trying to explain to my children why they should not

>> read this is a real joy and when they have read it because they see it

>> everyday is even more enjoyable.

>> 13. He painted similar messages on his home when another neighbor became 

>> a

>> police officer years ago, so this is an on going problem.

>> 14. I am flabbergasted that people are actually saying that his attacks 

>> on

>> the entire block are being hailed as free speech

>> 15. My wife and I have been awakened at night to gun shots over the last

>> several years from some unknown location but in his general direction.

>>

>> The atmosphere on the block is turning into "when" will Mr Reed 

>> physically

>> attach someone and not just verbally.  His outburst are building.  His

>> offensiveness is becoming greater by the week. The city council is

>> discussing banning cell phones and the neighbors on 11th are wonder who 

>> is

>> going to get attached first.  Civil discourse be gone.  I want Mr Reed

>> arrest or put into an institution.  I want City government including City

>> Council, the police department, city lawyers and every possible 

>> department

>> to help the neighbors on 11th.  Please help with the problems that exist

>> not ones that make Missourians feel good.

>>

>> HELP US PLEASE

>> David V. Gray

>> 1731 South 11th West.

>>

>>

>> >

>> > All,

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > I hope my comment to Brent Campbell about "civil discourse" is not

>> > preceived as some type of association with improprieties on behalf of

>> > other organizations and their personnel.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Years ago I'd seen the visual evidence and had heard from a neighbor

> about

>> > the 11th Street concerns, not just through the recent Missoulian

> article.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > My point was to illustrate that certain soured interactions ascend to

> the

>> > level of needing

>> >

>> > mediation and interpersonal guidance.  Others, (IMO) such as our common

>> > local civic discussions and disagreements in committee meetings etc., 

>> > do

>> > not ascend to such a level of need.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Serenity Now!

>> >

>> > John Wolverton

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:40:30 -0600

>> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Thoughts on Civil Discourse... and my

>> > neighbors.

>> > From: wjordanhess at gmail.com

>> > To: yodelingdog at hotmail.com

>> > CC: missoulagov at cmslists.com

>> >

>> >

>> > Hi John and all,

>> >

>> > I agree that the character on 11th street might need some interpersonal

>> > skills training, but I think that it was incredibly inappropriate for

> city

>> > staff to speculate about Mr. Reed publicly in the Missoulian.  Sure, he

>> > sounds like a complete nut, but for the chief of police and the city

>> > attorney to publicly suggest that Reed has a mental disorder seems to 

>> > me

>> > like a violation of Reed's privacy and an attack on his character of a

>> > magnitude not appropriate for an audience of a couple tens of thousands

> of

>> > readers.

>> >

>> > It would be okay for Chief Muir to outline past police actions 

>> > regarding

>> > the man in question, but he crosses the line with this: "Part of what's

>> > going on here might be mental health issues..."

>> >

>> > Similarly, it would have been perfectly appropriate for City Atty 

>> > Nugent

>> > to mention the letter sent to Reed and past actions against him, but he

>> > too goes too far by saying: "This man really needs some help..."

>> >

>> > While these types of statements are probably well founded, it shouldn't

> be

>> > the place of high-level city staff to publicly denounce Reed's

> character,

>> > turning the local paper into a gossip mill.  Am I off-base, or was this

>> > over the line?

>> >

>> > A little off topic for this list, but certainly pertaining to the state

> of

>> > our city government.

>> >

>> > Best,

>> > Jordan Hess

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:10 PM, JOHN WOLVERTON

> <yodelingdog at hotmail.com>

>> > wrote:

>> >

>> >

>> > Hey Brent,

>> >

>> > About:

>> > "...Pier Massimo Forni is a peacemaker, not between nations,

>> > rather on the fundamental level of individual personal relations. He's

>> > not a therapist, psychiatrist, or such. He's a master of the

>> > ameliorative skills that are as old as human society and, to him, more

>> > productive of social harmony than most people realize.

>> > We're talking about manners, courtesy, civility."

>> >

>> >

>> > Sounds like good stuff. Maybe you could convince Mr. Forni to have a

> visit

>> > with that guy on 11th street who is making my neighbors' lives so

>> > miserable.

>> >

>> > Regards,

>> > John Wolverton

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

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> out

>> > more.

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