[MissoulaGov] Civil Discours

[Paul Sopko]

I didn't suggest the delete key was a solution, just a suggestion. My point was this: should we start down the slippery slope of censorship just because someone starts calling names? I don't think so. BTW, comparing explicit programming on TV with name-calling on a listserv does not equate. 



Paul Sopko
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Clark 
  To: 'Paul Sopko' ; 'Nancy Wilson' ; bcampbell at wgmgroup.com ; missoulagov at cmslists.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:28 AM
  Subject: RE: [MissoulaGov] Civil Discours


  C'mon Paul, really. Using the delete key as the solution to control inappropriate (downright insulting) personal attacks does not solve the problem. That's like putting explicit programing on TV and telling people "you have a remote!"  Maybe the bigger question is, how did what seems to be a personal e-mail between Mr. Sehnert and Mr. Jaffe get out to the full list (I'm actually glad it did)? I fully agree with Mr. Campbell's reasoned assessment - having a disagreement over city issues is one thing but the last paragraph is totally uncalled for. 

  And to Bob Jaffe; Shake off this personal attack. Consider the sourse. Mr Sehnert obviously knows nothing about how hard you work at your jobs or about your wonderful family. His loss. I for one appreciate the job you are doing on the city council and have come to love you and your family as "family."  Hold your head high my friend...

  One persons bubble is another person's reality,


  Bob Clark, Associate Representative
  Sierra Club






  "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." 
                                                         - Edmund Burke

   





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Paul Sopko
  Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:37 AM
  To: Nancy Wilson; bcampbell at wgmgroup.com; missoulagov at cmslists.com
  Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Civil Discours


  As far as I can see, this message was sent to Bob Jaffe and not the listserv. Somehow Brent got a hold of it and decided to send it to the full group. 

  Although I don't condone Mr. Sehnert's choice of words, I hope we don't start censoring individuals because they don't play nice....use your delete key!

  Paul Sopko.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Nancy Wilson 
    To: bcampbell at wgmgroup.com ; missoulagov at cmslists.com 
    Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:18 PM
    Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Civil Discours


    I hope this person is removed from this list serve as this is just not acceptable discourse.  
    Nancy Wilson


    > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:39:38 -0600
    > From: BCampbell at wgmgroup.com
    > To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
    > Subject: [MissoulaGov] Civil Discours
    > 
    > Below is an email that was sent that I find to be offensive and
    > unacceptable behavior. Such personal attacks on the fine folks who
    > choose to serve in the often thankless job on city council do not
    > deserve to be treated in this manner. This individual has been an
    > outspoken critic of recent city activities including the zoning rewrite
    > process. Such unprofessional and uncivil behavior only weakens and
    > discredits his voice and undermines his representation of those who
    > respectfully disagree.
    > 
    > Lets keep it civil folks.
    > 
    > Brent A. Campbell, P.E.
    > WGM Group
    > 
    > 
    > From: Rocky Sehnert [mailto:turahcat at earthlink.net] 
    > Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:19 PM
    > To: Bob Jaffe
    > Subject: Go ahead--finish killing off downtown shopping- there is not
    > much there that just regular folks want anyway.
    > 
    > Dear Bob,
    > 
    > When you choke off the arteries to some part of the body it will die
    > from lack of flow of nutrients and oxygen. Choking off yet another
    > access route for motor vehicles to downtown will pretty much finish off
    > the viability of that part of the city for meaningful commerce
    > especially from persons such as myself who live a short distance out of
    > town and use our vehicles, at our expense, to do business in Missoula.
    > Your ideas are short sighted and childish in regard to Missoula's role
    > as a regional trade center. What is needed is more parking if you want
    > to save downtown. North Reserve shopping is clearly more attractive to
    > most people in this area. Downtown is full of over priced boutiques
    > and bars that cater to minors and bums. The panhandlers and vagrants
    > are enough already to keep me and my wife from going downtown after
    > hours.
    > 
    > Why don't you try getting a real 40 hours job in Missoula, give up your
    > trust fund, and see how regular people live. You might gain a whole new
    > perspective on real life in Missoula instead of living in your fantasy
    > bubble of bike, buses, and bullshit.
    > 
    > Rocky Sehnert
    > turahcat at earthlink.net
    > EarthLink Revolves Around You.
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
    > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of
    > missoulagov-request at cmslists.com
    > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:00 PM
    > To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
    > Subject: MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 40, Issue 11
    > 
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    > "Re: Contents of MissoulaGov digest..."
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    > 
    > Today's Topics:
    > 
    > 1. Zoning ReWrite Schedule (Bob Jaffe)
    > 2. Re: Zoning ReWrite Schedule (Jed Taylor)
    > 
    > 
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > 
    > Message: 1
    > Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:31:32 -0600
    > From: "Bob Jaffe" <BJaffe at ci.missoula.mt.us>
    > Subject: [MissoulaGov] Zoning ReWrite Schedule
    > To: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>
    > Message-ID:
    > 
    > <689D48B33023A5469751A46A44C5A7A30DBEB914 at mailserver.ci.missoula.mt.us>
    > 
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    > 
    > Hi,
    > My intent was to have this sent out early this afternoon to the
    > "interested persons" list that OPG maintains. I just noticed it sitting
    > behind a few other windows waiting for me to approve the spell check.
    > 
    > Here is the preliminary schedule for the zoning rewrite in PAZ:
    > 
    > 1) Up to one hour of random technical questions for our consultant.
    > 2) ADU
    > 3) Small lot issues
    > 4) Height and hillside
    > 5) Bed and Breakfast
    > 6) Administrative adjustments
    > 7) Home occupations
    > 8) Windmills
    > 9) Public Works issues
    > 10) Neighborhood Character Overlay
    > 11) Temporary uses
    > 12) Signs
    > 13) Map for southside riverfront overlay 14)Staff recommended Revisions
    > + Sara Busey and parts of Phil Condon comments
    > 15) Other issues
    > 
    > My hope is we will get through Adu's and small lot issues on Wed. 
    > 
    > At the end of each meeting I will line out what we will do at the
    > following meeting. Once we get some kind of stride I will make more
    > specific predictions.
    > 
    > If people have other issues or specific recommendations regarding any of
    > these issues please forward those to me.
    > 
    > Thanks,
    > bob
    > 
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    > ------------------------------
    > 
    > Message: 2
    > Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:53:45 -0600
    > From: "Jed Taylor" <mcc at offthedial.com>
    > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Zoning ReWrite Schedule
    > To: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>
    > Message-ID: <D140807BC9FD4D0CBCF9C0ACE001C377 at ryan>
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
    > 
    > It was an MCAT-Palooza last nite! Although the issue of whether Title
    > 20 is a rewrite or rezoning was discussed, I, for one, am unclear as to
    > what the practical procedural difference between the two is.
    > 
    > If this effort were to be handled as a rezoning, what would be required
    > to happen that's not going to happen under the current process? Is part
    > of the desire to treat this as a rezoning the possibility of collecting
    > enough signatures so as to require a super-majority of eight votes in
    > favor?
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > _____ 
    > 
    > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
    > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Bob Jaffe
    > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 17:32
    > To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
    > Subject: [MissoulaGov] Zoning ReWrite Schedule
    > 
    > 
    > Hi,
    > My intent was to have this sent out early this afternoon to the
    > "interested persons" list that OPG maintains. I just noticed it sitting
    > behind a few other windows waiting for me to approve the spell check.
    > 
    > Here is the preliminary schedule for the zoning rewrite in PAZ:
    > 
    > 1) Up to one hour of random technical questions for our consultant.
    > 2) ADU
    > 3) Small lot issues
    > 4) Height and hillside
    > 5) Bed and Breakfast
    > 6) Administrative adjustments
    > 7) Home occupations
    > 8) Windmills
    > 9) Public Works issues
    > 10) Neighborhood Character Overlay
    > 11) Temporary uses
    > 12) Signs
    > 13) Map for southside riverfront overlay 14)Staff recommended Revisions
    > + Sara Busey and parts of Phil Condon comments
    > 15) Other issues
    > 
    > My hope is we will get through Adu's and small lot issues on Wed. 
    > 
    > At the end of each meeting I will line out what we will do at the
    > following meeting. Once we get some kind of stride I will make more
    > specific predictions.
    > 
    > If people have other issues or specific recommendations regarding any of
    > these issues please forward those to me.
    > 
    > Thanks,
    > bob
    > 
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