[MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35, Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras

[mike/jo jakupcak]

I've always wanted to live in a red-light district!


Mike Jakupcak


On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:01:12 -0800
  Kathleen Snodgrass <kippie_snodgrass at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

> I like the idea of trying the red light cameras.  If you are driving an 

>appropriate speed for the conditions, the need to run a light should be 

>really, really rare.  

> 

> If you are approaching an intersection and the light turns yellow, and you 

>feel you won't get thru the intersection before the light turns red, but 

>you'd have to slam on your brakes to stop and don't feel that's safe either, 

>you are most likely going too fast for the conditions.  Most of us do it once 

>in a while, but it doesn't make it right or smart.   So then we have to 

>choose whether to risk a ticket or risk a wreck.  A wreck isn't a good 

>choice, so we should just regard getting that ticket as a painful reminder to 

>drive more responsibly, and resolve to do so in the future.  

> 

> Most of the red light running is on dry roads, tho.  We could stop, but we 

>don't want to stop and sit there for 2 minutes waiting for it to be our turn. 

> What makes us think we are so much more important than everybody else on the 

>road that we will run a "really orange" light - making everybody going the 

>other way wait for us, and cheating them out of part of their "turn"?  Seems 

>like there are a lot of us who didn't pay very good attention in 

>kindergarten, where we were all supposed to learn to take turns...  And why 

>in the world do we try to turn left during rush hour at intersections with no 

>left turn signal, knowing full well that the only way to make that turn is to 

>pull out into the intersection and wait for the light to change, then turn in 

>front of cross traffic and pray that nobody coming at us runs the light like 

>we're doing?  Why don't we just make a right turn series loop or go a couple 

>blocks farther to an intersection with a turn signal and then come back? 

> What in our lives is so terribly important that we are willing to risk 

>clobbering somebody or getting clobbered because we are in a hurry?  We save 

>what, a couple minutes by driving on the fast & selfish end of what's 

>responsible?  This is MISSOULA.  We shouldn't oughta let the world make us 

>think we need to hurry that much.  

> 

> I think we should give those red light cameras a chance and see whether they 

>will cut down on the red light running that seems to be endemic in town.

> Kathie Snodgrass kippie_snodgrass at hotmail.com 2702 O'Shaughnessy Street 

>Missoula, MT 59808 406-541-8639

> 

>From: geoffb at ism.netTo: jbmarquis at gmail.com; missoulagov at cmslists.comDate: 

>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:33:34 -0700Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, 

>Vol 35, Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras

> 

> 

> 

> Jonathon,

> 

> I am not 100% perfect on following all the rules of the road but I try to 

>drive and bike safely. Like you, I have often gone through the same split 

>second calculations with respect to signalized intersections.  The burden the 

>state places on every motorist--from which there is no relief--is to operate 

>a motor vehicle in a safe and prudent manner.  You are right, I think, in 

>your observation late in your post that if you have to slam on your brakes, 

>you are probably going too fast.  When I took driver’s ed a million years 

>ago, we were advised to never out-drive the conditions whether it was the 

>illumination of headlights or weather. Part of the rationale was, I believe, 

>if you can’t stop in time to avoid entering the intersection due to ice, what 

>chance do you have to stop if a child darts out into traffic or if a 

>bicyclist (me) has to make a sudden move to avoid an unsafe situation?

> 

> The advent of red light cameras may catch more violators, but I am still 

>waiting to be convinced that they make streets noticeably safer.  

> 

> 

> Geoff Badenoch

> P   Please consider the environment before printing this email. 

> -----Original Message-----From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com 

>[mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan MarquisSent: 

>Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:13 PMTo: missoulagov at cmslists.comSubject: Re: 

>[MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35,Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras

> 

> In regards to red light cameras.  My concern with red light cameras has to 

>do with poor weather conditions, especially slick roads. I am often 

>confronted with yellow lights that are short and often wonder should i slam 

>on my brakes to stop or should i just continue - even at the risk of being 

>halfway through the intersection when the light turns red?  Is it safer to 

>slam on your brakes when the light turns yellow in icy conditions just so you 

>don't get a ticket?  In slick conditions I feel that if you are confronted 

>with a choice between trying to stop (not get a ticket) or to safely continue 

>through the intersection the driver is proposed with a challenging decision 

>and only has a brief moment to decide.  Which i believe can lead to somewhat 

>of a panic situation, and in my view is less safe then just letting them get 

>through the intersection - which is generally well before the intersecting 

>traffic has even begun to move. And in this instance of poor conditions is it 

>fair to give someone a ticket for making a more rational & probably safer 

>decision? Obviously people speeding through yellow lights just to make the 

>light is silly and unsafe.  However yellow lights are often very short and 

>when the roads are slick it seems unreasonable to get a ticket when in my 

>view you are making a smarter decision - not slamming on your brakes and 

>sliding into the intersection. One might say well if you have to slam on your 

>brakes your probably going to fast...well i have certainly been on roads in 

>Missoula going the speed limit or under and still sliding due to the complete 

>ice covered roads (one might even remember those conditions a a few weeks 

>ago).  I was recently in Boulder, co and they have red light cameras. 

> Driving in boulder i was faced with bad road conditions and therefore faced 

>with this same dilemma. Does this seem like a reasonable argument to 

>others?Jonathan Marquis

> 

> 

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Mike and Jo Jakupcak