[MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35, Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras

[Kathleen Snodgrass]

I like the idea of trying the red light cameras.  If you are driving an appropriate speed for the conditions, the need to run a light should be really, really rare.  
 
If you are approaching an intersection and the light turns yellow, and you feel you won't get thru the intersection before the light turns red, but you'd have to slam on your brakes to stop and don't feel that's safe either, you are most likely going too fast for the conditions.  Most of us do it once in a while, but it doesn't make it right or smart.   So then we have to choose whether to risk a ticket or risk a wreck.  A wreck isn't a good choice, so we should just regard getting that ticket as a painful reminder to drive more responsibly, and resolve to do so in the future.  
 
Most of the red light running is on dry roads, tho.  We could stop, but we don't want to stop and sit there for 2 minutes waiting for it to be our turn.  What makes us think we are so much more important than everybody else on the road that we will run a "really orange" light - making everybody going the other way wait for us, and cheating them out of part of their "turn"?  Seems like there are a lot of us who didn't pay very good attention in kindergarten, where we were all supposed to learn to take turns...  And why in the world do we try to turn left during rush hour at intersections with no left turn signal, knowing full well that the only way to make that turn is to pull out into the intersection and wait for the light to change, then turn in front of cross traffic and pray that nobody coming at us runs the light like we're doing?  Why don't we just make a right turn series loop or go a couple blocks farther to an intersection with a turn signal and then come back?  What in our lives is so terribly important that we are willing to risk clobbering somebody or getting clobbered because we are in a hurry?  We save what, a couple minutes by driving on the fast & selfish end of what's responsible?  This is MISSOULA.  We shouldn't oughta let the world make us think we need to hurry that much.  
 
I think we should give those red light cameras a chance and see whether they will cut down on the red light running that seems to be endemic in town.
Kathie Snodgrass kippie_snodgrass at hotmail.com 2702 O'Shaughnessy Street Missoula, MT 59808 406-541-8639

From: geoffb at ism.netTo: jbmarquis at gmail.com; missoulagov at cmslists.comDate: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:33:34 -0700Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35, Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras



Jonathon,
 
I am not 100% perfect on following all the rules of the road but I try to drive and bike safely. Like you, I have often gone through the same split second calculations with respect to signalized intersections.  The burden the state places on every motorist--from which there is no relief--is to operate a motor vehicle in a safe and prudent manner.  You are right, I think, in your observation late in your post that if you have to slam on your brakes, you are probably going too fast.  When I took driver’s ed a million years ago, we were advised to never out-drive the conditions whether it was the illumination of headlights or weather. Part of the rationale was, I believe, if you can’t stop in time to avoid entering the intersection due to ice, what chance do you have to stop if a child darts out into traffic or if a bicyclist (me) has to make a sudden move to avoid an unsafe situation?
 
The advent of red light cameras may catch more violators, but I am still waiting to be convinced that they make streets noticeably safer.  
 

Geoff Badenoch
P   Please consider the environment before printing this email. 
-----Original Message-----From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan MarquisSent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:13 PMTo: missoulagov at cmslists.comSubject: Re: [MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35,Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras
 
In regards to red light cameras.  My concern with red light cameras has to do with poor weather conditions, especially slick roads. I am often confronted with yellow lights that are short and often wonder should i slam on my brakes to stop or should i just continue - even at the risk of being halfway through the intersection when the light turns red?  Is it safer to slam on your brakes when the light turns yellow in icy conditions just so you don't get a ticket?  In slick conditions I feel that if you are confronted with a choice between trying to stop (not get a ticket) or to safely continue through the intersection the driver is proposed with a challenging decision and only has a brief moment to decide.  Which i believe can lead to somewhat of a panic situation, and in my view is less safe then just letting them get through the intersection - which is generally well before the intersecting traffic has even begun to move. And in this instance of poor conditions is it fair to give someone a ticket for making a more rational & probably safer decision? Obviously people speeding through yellow lights just to make the light is silly and unsafe.  However yellow lights are often very short and when the roads are slick it seems unreasonable to get a ticket when in my view you are making a smarter decision - not slamming on your brakes and sliding into the intersection. One might say well if you have to slam on your brakes your probably going to fast...well i have certainly been on roads in Missoula going the speed limit or under and still sliding due to the complete ice covered roads (one might even remember those conditions a a few weeks ago).  I was recently in Boulder, co and they have red light cameras.  Driving in boulder i was faced with bad road conditions and therefore faced with this same dilemma. Does this seem like a reasonable argument to others?Jonathan Marquis

 
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