[MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35, Issue 9 - Red Light Cameras

[Jonathan Marquis]

In regards to red light cameras.  My concern with red light cameras has to
do with poor weather conditions, especially slick roads. I am often
confronted with yellow lights that are short and often wonder should i slam
on my brakes to stop or should i just continue - even at the risk of being
halfway through the intersection when the light turns red?  Is it safer to
slam on your brakes when the light turns yellow in icy conditions just so
you don't get a ticket?  In slick conditions I feel that if you are
confronted with a choice between trying to stop (not get a ticket) or to
safely continue through the intersection the driver is proposed with a
challenging decision and only has a brief moment to decide.  Which i believe
can lead to somewhat of a panic situation, and in my view is less safe then
just letting them get through the intersection - which is generally well
before the intersecting traffic has even begun to move. And in this instance
of poor conditions is it fair to give someone a ticket for making a more
rational & probably safer decision? Obviously people speeding through yellow
lights just to make the light is silly and unsafe.  However yellow lights
are often very short and when the roads are slick it seems unreasonable to
get a ticket when in my view you are making a smarter decision - not
slamming on your brakes and sliding into the intersection. One might say
well if you have to slam on your brakes your probably going to fast...well i
have certainly been on roads in Missoula going the speed limit or under and
still sliding due to the complete ice covered roads (one might even remember
those conditions a a few weeks ago).  I was recently in Boulder, co and they
have red light cameras.  Driving in boulder i was faced with bad road
conditions and therefore faced with this same dilemma. Does this seem like a
reasonable argument to others?

Jonathan Marquis


On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 12:00 PM, <missoulagov-request at cmslists.com> wrote:


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> Today's Topics:

>

>   1. Development Agreements Discussion (Bob Jaffe)

>   2. Re: Red Light Cameras in Missoula (Russ Fletcher)

>   3. Re: Red Light Cameras in Missoula (Russ Fletcher)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:46:55 -0700

> From: "Bob Jaffe" <BJaffe at ci.missoula.mt.us>

> Subject: [MissoulaGov] Development Agreements Discussion

> To: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>

> Message-ID:

>        <

> 689D48B33023A5469751A46A44C5A7A304121C1C at mailserver.ci.missoula.mt.us>

>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>

> Just a heads up that we will not be discussing development agreements on

> Wed. Carla is out of town so we are holding the item until 2/4.

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> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:44:46 -0700

> From: Russ Fletcher <russ at matr.net>

> Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Red Light Cameras in Missoula

> To: Sherri Davidoff <sherri at davidoffsecurity.com>,

>        missoulagov at cmslists.com

> Message-ID: <49711BEE.7000500 at matr.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>

> If I heard the news story correctly, the company that distributes the

> cameras will install them free of charge and then take a percentage of

> traffic ticket fines to cover their costs and make a profit.

> Sort of like "Big Brother" capitalism.....

>

> Sherri Davidoff wrote:

> > It sounds like these cameras will routinely snap photographs at

> > intersections, even when cars are just a little over the line.

> > Pedestrians and other cars can be captured in the film. It's creepy to

> > feel that when you walk or drive through an intersection in our town,

> > you could be monitored and your image could be stored. One thing that

> > I really appreciate about Missoula is that there are far fewer cameras

> > here than in bigger cities. I think that a government which respects

> > its citizens (and their privacy) would refrain from deploying mass

> > monitoring devices such as red light cameras.

> >

> > Also, from the articles you sent, it sounds like the safety impact of

> > these cameras is mixed. The town would probably make money off of

> > tickets, but is our purpose to make money? I bet that investing the

> > same amount in a PR campaign or youth driver training programs would

> > have a positive impact, without chipping away at everyone's privacy.

> >

> > Sherri

> >

> >

> >

> > Russ Fletcher wrote:

> >> Just saw a news broadcast that stated that Missoula was going to try

> >> out red light cameras.

> >> Brought to mind some stories that have come out in the past.

> >> Missoula is late to the game so we should learn from what others have

> >> experienced.

> >> Accidents and ticket revenue up...

> >> Thought it might be good to start the dialogue.

> >>

> >> <

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/

> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>     Red-Light Cameras Increase Accidents, USF Study Says

> >>

> >> <

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/

> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>     Company Says Red-Light Cameras, Drop In Injury Accidents Linked

> >>

> >> <

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/25/company-links-red-light-cameras-drop-injury-accide/

> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/25/company-links-red-light-cameras-drop-injury-accide/

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>     Red-Light Cameras Increase Accidents: 5 Studies That Prove It

> >>

> >> <

> http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/

> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>   D.C. Red-Light Cameras Fail to Reduce Accidents

> >>

> >> <

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html

> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.

> >> But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.

> >> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org List Serve hosting

> >> provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:08:35 -0700

> From: Russ Fletcher <russ at matr.net>

> Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Red Light Cameras in Missoula

> To: Sherri Davidoff <sherri at davidoffsecurity.com>,

>        missoulagov at cmslists.com

> Message-ID: <49712183.5040401 at matr.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>

> *Redflex Traffic Systems <http://www.redflex.com/>*

> *

> Missoula mulling red light cameras

> <http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=9682833>*

>

>

>    Minneapolis Red Light Camera Chickens Come Home

>    <

> http://bozemantalks.com/2008/12/30/minneapolis-defunct-red-light-chickens-come-home

> >

>

> *City set to adopt red-light ordinance*

> <http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2009/01/12/news/50city.txt>

>

> *City approves red-light cameras

> <http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2008/10/14/news/000lights.txt>

> *

>

>

>      Red Light FAQ <http://www.bozeman.net/bozeman/police/redFAQ.aspx>

>

>

> Sherri Davidoff wrote:

> > Russ Fletcher wrote:

> > > If I heard the news story correctly, the company that distributes the

> >

> > What company is it? Do you know what kind of cameras they are?

> >

> > Sherri

> >

> >

> > Russ Fletcher wrote:

> >> If I heard the news story correctly, the company that distributes the

> >> cameras will install them free of charge and then take a percentage

> >> of traffic ticket fines to cover their costs and make a profit.

> >> Sort of like "Big Brother" capitalism.....

> >>

> >> Sherri Davidoff wrote:

> >>> It sounds like these cameras will routinely snap photographs at

> >>> intersections, even when cars are just a little over the line.

> >>> Pedestrians and other cars can be captured in the film. It's creepy

> >>> to feel that when you walk or drive through an intersection in our

> >>> town, you could be monitored and your image could be stored. One

> >>> thing that I really appreciate about Missoula is that there are far

> >>> fewer cameras here than in bigger cities. I think that a government

> >>> which respects its citizens (and their privacy) would refrain from

> >>> deploying mass monitoring devices such as red light cameras.

> >>>

> >>> Also, from the articles you sent, it sounds like the safety impact

> >>> of these cameras is mixed. The town would probably make money off of

> >>> tickets, but is our purpose to make money? I bet that investing the

> >>> same amount in a PR campaign or youth driver training programs would

> >>> have a positive impact, without chipping away at everyone's privacy.

> >>>

> >>> Sherri

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Russ Fletcher wrote:

> >>>> Just saw a news broadcast that stated that Missoula was going to

> >>>> try out red light cameras.

> >>>> Brought to mind some stories that have come out in the past.

> >>>> Missoula is late to the game so we should learn from what others

> >>>> have experienced.

> >>>> Accidents and ticket revenue up...

> >>>> Thought it might be good to start the dialogue.

> >>>>

> >>>> <

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>     Red-Light Cameras Increase Accidents, USF Study Says

> >>>>

> >>>> <

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>     Company Says Red-Light Cameras, Drop In Injury Accidents Linked

> >>>>

> >>>> <

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/25/company-links-red-light-cameras-drop-injury-accide/

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/25/company-links-red-light-cameras-drop-injury-accide/

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>     Red-Light Cameras Increase Accidents: 5 Studies That Prove It

> >>>>

> >>>> <

> http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>   D.C. Red-Light Cameras Fail to Reduce Accidents

> >>>>

> >>>> <

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> _______________________________________________

> >>>> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.

> >>>> But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.

> >>>> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org List Serve hosting

> >>>> provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.

> >> But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.

> >> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org List Serve hosting

> >> provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.

> >

> >

> >

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> End of MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 35, Issue 9

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