[MissoulaGov] Parking Kiosks
Suzanne Sherman Aboulfadl
saboulfadl at gmail.com
Mon Dec 7 14:11:45 MST 2009
Is there a website link to the parking management documents? Great holiday
reading that I hadn't considered before. Also, where could I find info on
the bike lanes on North Higgins? I got in on the middle of that discussion
and don't know what the original proposals are -- I've only read the
responses.
Suzanne
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Brent Campbell <BCampbell at wgmgroup.com>wrote:
> Sally,
>
> There are numerous good books on the importance on parking management as
> it relates to good land planning. "The High Cost of Free Parking" would
> be a good place to start. There were also several documents prepared on
> recommended parking management strategies prepared for the Downtown
> masterplan. We need people engaged and informed on the issues. Parking
> seems to illicit passions second only to depriving someone of oxygen.
>
> Brent Campbell, P.E.
> President / CEO
> WGM Group, Inc.
> http://www.wgmgroup.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sally Brown [mailto:sallybrown6 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM
> To: Jordan Hess
> Cc: Brent Campbell; missoulagov at cmslists.com
> Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Parking Kiosks
>
> What! No free parking with the free lunch?
>
> This makes sense. Why, then, is it only the downtown area that has
> parking meters. How does the city get it's money out of the free large
> parking lots surrounding the urban core?
>
>
> Jordan Hess wrote:
> > Sally:
> >
> > There is no such thing as free parking. Ever. Even the parking at
> > Wal-Mart is highly subsidized in the form of infrastructure
> > improvements the the city has to foot the bill for (such as the idea
> > of adding a second left turn lane from Reserve to Mullan).
> >
> > If parking in the urban core is free, than it will be taken up by
> > people parking for a long period of time, such as employees or area
> > residents and it won't be available for customers of downtown
> > businesses or for folks stoping by government offices. There are many
> > ways to properly price downtown parking to make it hassle-free and
> > affordable. If parking were free, I believe it would actually be a
> > strain on downtown businesses because less would be available to their
>
> > customers. It would certainly be a strain on city budgets.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jordan Hess
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Sally Brown <sallybrown6 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:sallybrown6 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I don't like, do not want, will not agree in any manner to parking
> > kiosks. They are difficult to use for anyone other than those
> > with extra time, correct change, nothing in their hands, no small
> > children in tow, or other encumbrances.
> > I am hoping that we are moving in the direction of free downtown
> > parking.
> >
> > Parking kiosks are a sign that you may have lost your senses.
> >
> >
> > Sally Brown
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Brent Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Reports from Portland indicate a 25 % increase in revenue
> > from the
> > electronic kiosks. This should be confirmed by our parking
> > consultants
> > and if true, this could be important bonding revenue for the
> new
> > structures identified in the downtown masterplan.
> >
> > Brent Campbell, P.E.
> > President / CEO
> > WGM Group, Inc.
> > http://www.wgmgroup.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>
> > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>] On Behalf Of
> > missoulagov-request at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-request at cmslists.com>
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM
> > To: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 46, Issue 5
> >
> > Send MissoulaGov mailing list submissions to
> > missoulagov at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> >
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> >
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> > <mailto:missoulagov-owner at cmslists.com>
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> > specific than
> > "Re: Contents of MissoulaGov digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: parking meters (Rod Austin)
> > 2. Re: parking meters (Jim McGrath)
> > 3. Re: parking meters (Rod Austin)
> > 4. Re: Committee Update 12-2-09 (parking meters) (Michael
> > Loftis)
> > 5. Re: parking meters (Ed Childers)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:13:34 -0700
> > From: "Rod Austin" <raustin at missouladowntownbid.org
> > <mailto:raustin at missouladowntownbid.org>>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> > To: "'Derek Goldman'" <derekmgold at hotmail.com
> > <mailto:derekmgold at hotmail.com>>,
> > <echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>>, <srye at montana.com
> > <mailto:srye at montana.com>>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Message-ID: <002701ca774f$d9c1d100$8d457300$@org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Who pays the power bill? Or would that come with your parking
> > fee? Rod
> >
> >
> > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>
> > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>] On Behalf Of Derek
> > Goldman
> > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:22 PM
> > To: echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>; srye at montana.com
> > <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> >
> > i wish we had a "like" button...
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:12:42 -0700
> > From: echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>
> > To: srye at montana.com <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > CC: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> > I predict: in as little as five years we will be looking back
> > wishing
> > our parking meters doubled as plug-ins for our fleet of
> electric
> > vehicles.
> >
> > Ed Childers
> >
> >
> > Stacy Rye wrote:
> > Rod,
> >
> >
> > It's not the changing of habits that's the issue, it's that
> > kiosks are
> >
> >
> > inconvenient, and they could be difficult for tourists and
> > perhaps a
> >
> >
> > question of if it's not broke . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the council needs to hear about this if new parking
> > meters/kiosks
> >
> >
> > are proposed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many issues to think through on what actually gets
> > put on the
> >
> >
> > street. There are other more modern ways than the multi space
> > meters and
> >
> >
> > we
> >
> >
> > will be exploring all of them. I think the feeling is that
> > with the new
> >
> >
> > streetscape it would be nice to clean it up even more. And
> > frankly I
> > don't
> >
> >
> > think it would be that difficult to change habits. At my age I
> > sometimes
> >
> >
> > take change hard but do try to stay open to it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I do have to say that everyone's input is interesting (I am a
> > little
> >
> >
> > surprised) and noted.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages and attachments sent to or from this e-mail account
> > pertaining
> > to City business may be considered public or private records
> > depending
> > on the message content. The City is often required by law to
> > provide
> > public records to individuals requesting them. The City is
> > also required
> > by law to protect private, confidential information. This
> > message is
> > intended for the use of the individual or entity named above.
> > If you are
> > not the intended recipient of this transmission, please notify
> the
> > sender immediately, do not forward the message to anyone, and
> > delete all
> > copies. Thank you
> >
> >
> > _____
> > Windows LiveT Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever.
> > Learn more.
> >
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.as
> > px?o
> > cid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> <http://www.cmslists.com/pipermail/missoulagov/attachments/20091207/a7ad
> > 0201/attachment.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:30:12 -0700
> > From: "Jim McGrath" <jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org
> > <mailto:jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org>>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> > To: "Rod Austin" <raustin at missouladowntownbid.org
> > <mailto:raustin at missouladowntownbid.org>>, "Derek Goldman"
> > <derekmgold at hotmail.com
> > <mailto:derekmgold at hotmail.com>>, <echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>>,
> > <srye at montana.com <mailto:srye at montana.com>>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Message-ID:
> > <92B4830B2B5E6E43B04109A6DFB96F96F8297E at mha1.MHA.local>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Solar!
> >
> >
> > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>
> > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>] On Behalf Of Rod
> Austin
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:14 AM
> > To: 'Derek Goldman'; echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>; srye at montana.com
> > <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> >
> > Who pays the power bill? Or would that come with your parking
> > fee? Rod
> >
> >
> > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>
> > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>] On Behalf Of Derek
> > Goldman
> > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:22 PM
> > To: echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>; srye at montana.com
> > <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> >
> > i wish we had a "like" button...
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:12:42 -0700
> > From: echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>
> > To: srye at montana.com <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > CC: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> > I predict: in as little as five years we will be looking back
> > wishing
> > our parking meters doubled as plug-ins for our fleet of
> electric
> > vehicles.
> >
> > Ed Childers
> >
> >
> > Stacy Rye wrote:
> > Rod,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It's not the changing of habits that's the issue, it's that
> > kiosks are
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > inconvenient, and they could be difficult for tourists and
> > perhaps a
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > question of if it's not broke . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the council needs to hear about this if new parking
> > meters/kiosks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > are proposed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many issues to think through on what actually
> > gets put
> > on the
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > street. There are other more modern ways than the multi
> > space
> > meters and
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > we
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > will be exploring all of them. I think the feeling is
> > that with
> > the new
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > streetscape it would be nice to clean it up even more.
> And
> > frankly I don't
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > think it would be that difficult to change habits. At
> > my age I
> > sometimes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > take change hard but do try to stay open to it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I do have to say that everyone's input is interesting
> > (I am a
> > little
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > surprised) and noted.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages and attachments sent to or from this e-mail account
> > pertaining
> > to City business may be considered public or private records
> > depending
> > on the message content. The City is often required by law to
> > provide
> > public records to individuals requesting them. The City is
> > also required
> > by law to protect private, confidential information. This
> > message is
> > intended for the use of the individual or entity named above.
> > If you are
> > not the intended recipient of this transmission, please notify
> the
> > sender immediately, do not forward the message to anyone, and
> > delete all
> > copies. Thank you
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Windows LiveT Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever.
> > Learn more.
> >
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.as
> > px?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> <http://www.cmslists.com/pipermail/missoulagov/attachments/20091207/6ca3
> > 86e1/attachment-0001.htm>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:41:05 -0700
> > From: "Rod Austin" <raustin at missouladowntownbid.org
> > <mailto:raustin at missouladowntownbid.org>>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> > To: "'Jim McGrath'" <jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org
> > <mailto:jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org>>, "'Derek
> > Goldman'"
> > <derekmgold at hotmail.com
> > <mailto:derekmgold at hotmail.com>>, <echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>>,
> > <srye at montana.com <mailto:srye at montana.com>>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Message-ID: <003501ca7753$b134d120$139e7360$@org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I'm there!
> >
> >
> > From: Jim McGrath [mailto:jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org
> > <mailto:jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org>]
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:30 AM
> > To: Rod Austin; Derek Goldman; echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>;
> > srye at montana.com <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: RE: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> >
> > Solar!
> >
> >
> > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>
> > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>] On Behalf Of Rod
> Austin
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:14 AM
> > To: 'Derek Goldman'; echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>; srye at montana.com
> > <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> >
> > Who pays the power bill? Or would that come with your parking
> > fee? Rod
> >
> >
> > From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>
> > [mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com>] On Behalf Of Derek
> > Goldman
> > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:22 PM
> > To: echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>; srye at montana.com
> > <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> >
> > i wish we had a "like" button...
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:12:42 -0700
> > From: echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>
> > To: srye at montana.com <mailto:srye at montana.com>
> > CC: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> >
> > I predict: in as little as five years we will be looking back
> > wishing
> > our parking meters doubled as plug-ins for our fleet of
> electric
> > vehicles.
> >
> > Ed Childers
> >
> >
> > Stacy Rye wrote:
> > Rod,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It's not the changing of habits that's the issue, it's that
> > kiosks are
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > inconvenient, and they could be difficult for tourists and
> > perhaps a
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > question of if it's not broke . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the council needs to hear about this if new parking
> > meters/kiosks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > are proposed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many issues to think through on what actually gets
> > put on the
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > street. There are other more modern ways than the multi space
> > meters and
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > we
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > will be exploring all of them. I think the feeling is that
> > with the new
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > streetscape it would be nice to clean it up even more. And
> > frankly I
> > don't
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > think it would be that difficult to change habits. At my age
> > I sometimes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > take change hard but do try to stay open to it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I do have to say that everyone's input is interesting (I am a
> > little
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> > Messages and attachments sent to or from this e-mail account
> > pertaining
> > to City business may be considered public or private records
> > depending
> > on the message content. The City is often required by law to
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> > px?o
> > cid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009>
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> <http://www.cmslists.com/pipermail/missoulagov/attachments/20091207/81ba
> > afff/attachment-0001.htm>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:05:40 -0700
> > From: Michael Loftis <mloftis at wgops.com
> > <mailto:mloftis at wgops.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 12-2-09 (parking
> > meters)
> > To: missoulagov at cmslists.com <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>
> > Message-ID: <814A79FDD7ABC5353935390A@[192.168.1.44]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > (reply is inline)
> >
> > --On Friday, December 04, 2009 12:22 PM -0700 Rod Austin
> > <raustin at missouladowntownbid.org
> > <mailto:raustin at missouladowntownbid.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We are currently looking a a different metering system on
> > N Higgins.
> > Electronic gang meters are on our radar and this may be a
> > great place
> >
> >
> > to
> >
> >
> > try them.
> >
> >
> >
> > One of my concerns is that a *lot* of the LCD display based
> > multi-space (and single space meters) may not function well
> > during winter around
> > here. I personally would prefer to pay via credit card, or
> > even cell txt or
> > call from the comfort of the vehicle, than change, or cash.
> > As someone mentioned further along in this thread waiting on
> > someone else in this weather is painful at the least. Also,
> > as many have noted bill changers
> >
> > can also have a hard time when the temperatures are this low.
> >
> > I'm sure our folks at the parking commission are considering
> > all of
> > this, after all, they ultimately have to service and maintain
> > all of this kit!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:12:15 -0700
> > From: Ed Childers <echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:echilders at ci.missoula.mt.us>>
> > Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] parking meters
> > To: Rod Austin <raustin at missouladowntownbid.org
> > <mailto:raustin at missouladowntownbid.org>>
> > Cc: "missoulagov at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>" <missoulagov at cmslists.com
> > <mailto:missoulagov at cmslists.com>>
> > Message-ID: <4B1D457F.1050004 at ci.missoula.mt.us
> > <mailto:4B1D457F.1050004 at ci.missoula.mt.us>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
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> <http://www.cmslists.com/pipermail/missoulagov/attachments/20091207/6c67
> > 1a17/attachment-0001.htm>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > End of MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 46, Issue 5
> > ******************************************
> > _______________________________________________
> > -----Please delete extra content when replying to
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> > _______________________________________________
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jordan Hess
> >
> > Email: jordan at montanatransit.com <mailto:jordan at montanatransit.com>
> > Mobile: 406-431-3222
>
> _______________________________________________
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