[MissoulaGov] MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 29, Issue 4
Caitlin Copple
ccopple at ywcaofmissoula.org
Thu Jul 10 11:47:30 MDT 2008
I agree. I live near Plymouth and Beckwith and would advocate a
roundabout as soon as possible! People drive way too fast on Beckwith
and there are lots of dogs and little kids in the neighborhood.
Thanks,
Caitlin Copple
Marketing Coordinator
YWCA Missoula
1130 W. Broadway
Missoula, MT 59802
Phone: 406.543.6691
Fax: 406.543.6777
Email: ccopple at ywcaofmissoula.org
Web: www.ywcaofmissoula.org
-----Original Message-----
From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
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missoulagov-request at cmslists.com
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:46 AM
To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
Subject: MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 29, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: higgins roundabout this fall: Committee Update 7-9-08
(Sally Brown)
2. Addendum to 7-9-08 Committee Update (Jason Wiener)
3. Re: higgins roundabout this fall: Committee Update 7-9-08
(Thompson, Ken)
4. Re: higgins roundabout this fall: Committee Update 7-9-08
(Steven Allison-Bunnell)
5. Re: higgins roundabout this fall: Committee Update7-9-08
(Jim McGrath)
6. "the interminable Higgins-Hill-Beckwith construction project"
(John Fletcher)
7. Re: Committee Update 7-9-08 (Ryan Morton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:56:10 -0600
From: Sally Brown <posie at bigsky.net>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] higgins roundabout this fall: Committee
Update 7-9-08
To: Jenny Daniel <jdaniel at co.missoula.mt.us>
Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com
Message-ID: <4876311A.6070504 at bigsky.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I agree with Bob. Build it - the sooner the better.
Sally Brown
University area resident and home owner
Jenny Daniel wrote:
> I agree with Bob, and we have a good start already. Fall of '08 is my
> vote.
> Jenny Daniel
> Burlington Ave. Resident
>
> Jenny Daniel
>
> Crime Victim Advocate Program Coordinator
> jdaniel at co.missoula.mt.us <mailto:jdaniel at co.missoula.mt.us>
> 830-3831
>
>
> >>> "Bob Giordano" <mist at strans.org> 7/10/2008 8:14 AM >>>
> Single lane roundabouts are very simple, safe and easy to use. Sleet,
> snow, or school traffic are not reasons to delay. Let's build the
> Higgins/Beckwith single lane roundabout in Fall of '08.
>
> -Bob Giordano, MIST.
>
>
> > inclined to defer to the ward reps but would like to hear from
people in
> > the area about their preferences for construction: fall 08, spring
09 or
> > summer 09.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.
> But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.
> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org
> List Serve hosting provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.
> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:55:19 -0600
From: "Jason Wiener" <JWiener at ci.missoula.mt.us>
Subject: [MissoulaGov] Addendum to 7-9-08 Committee Update
To: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>
Message-ID:
<689D48B33023A5469751A46A44C5A7A3089B07DD at mailserver.ci.missoula.mt.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks for this correction:
"There is another skywalk in town. It crosses the alley between the
Florence Hotel and the Hallmark building. It will hopefully be the
gateway to "Blues Alley" someday.
Sincerely,
David V. Gray
Project Architect
Paradigm v 2.0 P.C.
125 1/2 West Main
Missoula MT. 59802
(406) 549-6120
paradigmoffice at aol.com"
*******
Jason Wiener, Alderman, Ward One
1238 Jackson St.
Missoula, MT 59802
(406) 542-3232
jwiener at ci.missoula.mt.us
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:02:49 -0600
From: "Thompson, Ken" <Ken.Thompson at mso.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] higgins roundabout this fall: Committee
Update 7-9-08
To: <missoulagov at cmslists.com>
Message-ID:
<F4CAC001123EF0458A325414648D3A070114E5F5 at MUMMAILVS2.gs.umt.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree with Bob also. If you bike or drive Beckwith and watch the
crazy, and many times dangerous, acrobatics that vehicles, bikes and
pedestrians perform at that intersection, the construction needs to
begin sooner, rather than later.
Ken Thompson
-----Original Message-----
From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
[mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Sally Brown
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:56 AM
To: Jenny Daniel
Cc: missoulagov at cmslists.com
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] higgins roundabout this fall: Committee
Update 7-9-08
I agree with Bob. Build it - the sooner the better.
Sally Brown
University area resident and home owner
Jenny Daniel wrote:
> I agree with Bob, and we have a good start already. Fall of '08 is my
> vote.
> Jenny Daniel
> Burlington Ave. Resident
>
> Jenny Daniel
>
> Crime Victim Advocate Program Coordinator
> jdaniel at co.missoula.mt.us <mailto:jdaniel at co.missoula.mt.us>
> 830-3831
>
>
> >>> "Bob Giordano" <mist at strans.org> 7/10/2008 8:14 AM >>>
> Single lane roundabouts are very simple, safe and easy to use. Sleet,
> snow, or school traffic are not reasons to delay. Let's build the
> Higgins/Beckwith single lane roundabout in Fall of '08.
>
> -Bob Giordano, MIST.
>
>
> > inclined to defer to the ward reps but would like to hear from
people in
> > the area about their preferences for construction: fall 08, spring
09 or
> > summer 09.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.
> But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.
> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org
> List Serve hosting provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula.
But posts to this list may be entered into the public record.
> Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org
> List Serve hosting provided by www.CedarMountainSoftware.com.
_______________________________________________
Note: This list is NOT an official service of the City Of Missoula. But
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Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:38:13 -0600
From: Steven Allison-Bunnell <steve at eduweb.com>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] higgins roundabout this fall: Committee
Update 7-9-08
To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
Message-ID: <A4EF51AD-67B5-4C8E-A9E3-F49199AC5DC6 at eduweb.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
I would vote for building it sooner than later. Construction can be
disruptive any time of year. This project has dragged on long enough,
and costs will only continue to escalate and the poor safety of the
intersection will remain until it is done.
Thank you,
Steve Allison-Bunnell
Woodford Street (near Beckwith)
On Jul 10, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Bob Giordano wrote:
> Single lane roundabouts are very simple, safe and easy to use. Sleet,
> snow, or school traffic are not reasons to delay. Let's build the
> Higgins/Beckwith single lane roundabout in Fall of '08.
>
> -Bob Giordano, MIST.
>
>
>> inclined to defer to the ward reps but would like to hear from
>> people in
>> the area about their preferences for construction: fall 08, spring
>> 09 or
>> summer 09.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:40:27 -0600
From: "Jim McGrath" <jmcgrath at missoulahousing.org>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] higgins roundabout this fall: Committee
Update7-9-08
To: "Steven Allison-Bunnell" <steve at eduweb.com>,
<missoulagov at cmslists.com>
Message-ID: <92B4830B2B5E6E43B04109A6DFB96F969FBFC9 at mha1.MHA.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree. I have seen projects like this evaporate if delayed because
cost increases make them no longer feasible. This is a safety project,
and so delays also delay improving the safety of those needing to use
that intersection.
-----Original Message-----
From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
[mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Allison-Bunnell
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:38 AM
To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] higgins roundabout this fall: Committee
Update7-9-08
I would vote for building it sooner than later. Construction can be
disruptive any time of year. This project has dragged on long enough,
and costs will only continue to escalate and the poor safety of the
intersection will remain until it is done.
Thank you,
Steve Allison-Bunnell
Woodford Street (near Beckwith)
On Jul 10, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Bob Giordano wrote:
> Single lane roundabouts are very simple, safe and easy to use. Sleet,
> snow, or school traffic are not reasons to delay. Let's build the
> Higgins/Beckwith single lane roundabout in Fall of '08.
>
> -Bob Giordano, MIST.
>
>
>> inclined to defer to the ward reps but would like to hear from
>> people in
>> the area about their preferences for construction: fall 08, spring
>> 09 or
>> summer 09.
>
>
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Subscribe or view archives at Missoulagov.org
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:48:13 -0600
From: John Fletcher <fletcher at montana.com>
Subject: [MissoulaGov] "the interminable Higgins-Hill-Beckwith
construction project"
To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:43:34 -0600
From: "Ryan Morton" <community at buildmissoula.com>
Subject: Re: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 7-9-08
To: "'Jason Wiener'" <JWiener at ci.missoula.mt.us>,
<missoulagov at cmslists.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8e2b4$7aeef350$8501a8c0 at Community>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks Jason.
At PAZ, I was one of the speakers who wasn't allowed to speak. I told
Ms.
Marler that it was no worry at all. I had simply wanted to point out my
support for Mr. Millar's language on redrawing boundary lines and Mr.
Haine's suggestion about putting time constraints on redrawing boundary
lines. I'm guessing the language will come up in the subdivision
rewrite,
but if Mr. Jaffe or anyone else would like to move it forward that's
great
too. It's unfair that some people evade subdivision review when
everyone
else, doing basically the same thing, endure subdivision review. I
think
all we have to do is allow legitimate boundary line redraws (I'm sure
there's a better way to put that) to occur without fuss so that folks
doing
legitimate non-subdivision work can go ahead with maximizing their land.
As far as special park maintenance districts go, I know the legislature
is
pondering a streamlining of special improvement districts generally. I
can't recall if that includes districts that exist in perpetuity or not,
but
it may be of interest to some folks.
Anyhow, thanks again for the update Jason. See you around.
Ryan Morton, Government Affairs Director
Missoula Building Industry Association
_____
From: missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com
[mailto:missoulagov-bounces at cmslists.com] On Behalf Of Jason Wiener
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:46 AM
To: missoulagov at cmslists.com
Subject: [MissoulaGov] Committee Update 7-9-08
Bob is on vacation this week so I wrote up the committee meetings today.
J.
*****
When I was a kid, Nickelodeon ran this show called "You Can't Do That On
Television." In addition to dropping green slime on people when they
said "I
don't know" and sporting a regular skit with a line-order cook named
Booger,
the show featured a recurring bit called opposite sketches where the
normal
order of things would be turned on its head-the stingy would become
generous, the refined uncouth. This morning turned out to be
opposite-sketch
time at 140 W. Pine.
Dave Strohmaier was out for work and Ed Childers and Bob Jaffe were both
on
vacation which meant Pam Walzer, John Hendrickson, Jon Wilkins, Lyn
Hellegaard, Dick Haines, Renee Mitchell and I made up the Public Safety
&
Health Committee. With the self-style conservative minority firmly in
control of the votes, I'd venture to guess we got a taste of their
governing
style.
Police Chief Mark Muir and Chief Administrative Officer Bruce Bender
presented the first item: an $18,000 contract for cost estimating with
MacArthur Means and Wells (MMW) as the lead architect and police station
specialists Wilson Estes providing specialty support. MMW was given the
contract by the administration, following on preliminary work they did
on
the downtown site that everyone seems to prefer.
John Hendrickson raised an issue with the selection of MMW, asking if
the
project was bid. Dick Haines asserted that the entire project would face
an
uphill battle because MMW has "zero credibility" because of their work
on
the aquatics project. They didn't seem bothered by the fact that the job
wasn't advertised with an RFP since its size didn't merit that. They
just
flatly objected to MMW. The principal architect is different and the
subcontractors, too, but merely the letters MMW were enough to
precipitate
some ensuring shenanigans. There was a motion to approve the contract
and a
call for a show of hands on it. Pam and I voted in favor. Jon W., Lyn
and
Renee voted against it while John H. and Dick abstained. Pam tried to
call
the count 2-3-2 but John H. told Jon W. to change his vote to yes and
Jon W.
obeyed, making the vote 3-2-2. Then John H. changed his vote from
abstain to
no so the vote would be 3-3-1. The objective was to tie the vote
because,
under a poorly constructed Council rule, a tie in committee is the only
way
to keep an item from moving to the Council floor. Of course, we can just
take it up next week unless the administration decides to pick another
architect for this $18,000 piece of a likely $40 million project. I got
frustrated with all the puppeteering and offered to change my vote as
well,
which prompted John H. to offer to change his back. It finally stopped
when
City Clerk Marty Rehbein pointed out that minute-taker Lesley Wills had
no
idea how anyone was voting. We eventually moved on to the other item, a
towing contract extension sent back to committee because it the
extension
was offered without an RFP. The Police agreed to advertise the RFP and
asked
for an extension with the existing company in the interim, which the
committee agreed to. We came back to the vote on the police station but
stand-in chair Pam ended up continuing the item to another meeting
because
of the obstruction and irresolution.
PAZ followed, albeit starting late because of PS&H's pile-up. We talked
about the Office of Planning & Grants Urban Initiatives task list for
the
next fiscal year, which lays out the non-project priorities of the
department. The biggest tasks (with hours allocated) were as follows:
zoning
revision (2400 hrs), application of UFDA work including a plan for
Orchard
Homes (2000 hrs with the county collaborating), Mayor's Housing
Initiative
(1000 hrs). The whole list is here:
ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Packets/Council/2008/2008-07-07/UITaskList.p
df
Everything in the plan was funded except for a revision to the
Rattlesnake
Comprehensive Plan. Partly in response to some development pressure on
unzoned land, a group from the Rattlesnake, including people from both
Neighborhood Councils has been working to update its 1995 plan to create
tools that would inform resource decisions on specific land-use matters
and
highlight missing infrastructure. The item was assigned 2000 hours by a
scope of work drawn up this year. Pretty much everyone agrees that's too
much time but right now none of it is funded anyway. The people in that
area
are looking for money outside government. I'd like to see a fraction of
the
money and staff time made available by the city so the community can
leverage it. Otherwise, the community people working on this will have
wasted many hours and, after having their hopes raised by OPG drawing up
a
scope of work, their cynicism will simply be stoked by the lack of any
movement on it. Other areas of the city are under greater development
pressure, of course, and I recognize the need to prioritize based on
need. I
think desire, expressed with genuine grassroots effort, should also
merit
support.
About an hour was left for a discussion of stacking lots. Roger Millar
from
OPG made a presentation about the practice, which allows the redrawing
of
lot lines in established subdivisions without undergoing subdivision
review
as long as the number of lots after the redrawing is no greater than
before
and the parcels, buildings, setbacks, etc. conform to zoning. If the
stacking results in lots arranged under a PNC, the requirement that the
redrawn parcel conforms to zoning doesn't mean that they have to meet
minimum lot size, setback and the like for the existing zoning because
the
PNC is a zoning regulation. At least that's what I took away. If you are
interested in the intricacies, you can download the presentation (over 3
MB)
at www.jasonwienerforcouncil.org/stacking.ppt
Most of the Council questions, and all the public comment, centered on
the
Lincoln School, a historic school that's being converted to what looks a
lot
like a 13-lot subdivision using the planned neighborhood cluster tool.
Very
quickly, familiar sounding complaints about PNCs, zoning overlays, and
neighborhood protest filled the committee room. None of it had much to
do
with Roger's suggestion on how Council could rewrite local subdivision
regulations so future attempts at stacking would have to go through
subdivision review. Even if we did adopt his suggestion, there are a
number
of other loopholes in state law that would probably still allow such
projects to be exempt from subdivision review, like condominium
ownership.
Some of the rhetoric got overheated; at one point the Lincoln School
project
was compared to murder, at another a puss-oozing blight. So I was
surprised
when we ended early. During public testimony, which stand-in chair
Marilyn
Marler limited to three minutes so everyone could speak, Lee Clemensen
took
more than twice her allotted time, ignoring four-minute and six-minute
warning and ultimately refusing to yield the microphone. Without a
sergeant-at-arms to enforce the chair's ruling, Marilyn adjourned the
meeting at that point. It was the right move, in my opinion, but,
regrettably, two people who wanted to testify were not allowed. Odds are
good that they wouldn't have gotten to anyway because of the
filibustering.
I was glad lunch time had arrived. We accomplished precious little
during
the morning but expended plenty of energy.
After lunch, A&F met briefly to set a public hearing on park maintenance
districts. There are two on the south side of town and the assessments
fund
the improvements instead of the general fund. It is an unusual
arrangement
but no one had an issue with it. I guess someone could voice one at the
public hearing though.
In Public Works, we approved a pair of purchases for sewer and streets.
We
also approved an encroachment permit for an alley skywalk between the
current Garlington Lohn and Robinson building at 199 W. Pine St. and
their
new building, planned for 138 W. Broadway, where Scooterville currently
is.
(Someone in a position to know tells me Scooterville is eyeing the
proposed
green mall as a new location. They were offered ground-floor retail in
Garlington's new building but need to locate somewhere during the year
that
will take to build anyway.) The skyway plans call for more than just a
connection between buildings, with the skyway to contain a conference
room
and break room. We talked about the criteria for approving the request
since
there is only one skywalk in Missoula, between the Palace Apartments and
Central Park. Basically, there is no entitlement to encroach so the
decision
is discretionary. We aren't setting a binding precedent by saying yes.
The
vote in favor of the permit was unanimous but the architect will be
available Monday if there are questions. Some plans are visible at
ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/packets/council/2008/2008-07-07/Referrals/RO
WEnc
roachSkywlkPlan.pdf
The final item was a discussion of the interminable
Higgins-Hill-Beckwith
construction project. Delays in acquiring right-of-way in front of the
Grizzly Grocery have pushed the project to a schedule where construction
could not begin until late fall. That's frustrating, of course, because
this
project has been going on for a long time. It also means the project
should
probably wait until spring. If construction doesn't begin until the
fall,
the 45-day schedule could be interrupted by winter weather, which is
highly
undesirable since the finished product is a bit of a prototype in
Missoula.
Steve King and Kevin Slovarp from Public Works said MDT wants the
project to
be built first thing in the spring, April 15. This will mean closing the
intersection for over six weeks while school is in session and detouring
the
traffic associated with the street and Paxson School through the
neighborhood. The alternative is waiting until school lets out to start
construction, which adds uncertainty to the cost of the project because
the
bigger the gap between bidding and construction, the greater contingency
a
contractor is likely to insist on for changes in material costs. Stacy
expressed a preference for waiting until school is out but there was no
vote
on the matter as it is an administrative decision. I'm inclined to defer
to
the ward reps but would like to hear from people in the area about their
preferences for construction: fall 08, spring 09 or summer 09.
We looked at the BID budget in Budget Committee of the Whole. They are
enjoying a lot of success, winning over even people who thought the
district-funded assessments on downtown property owners-was a bad idea
when
it was created. The clean team and downtown ambassadors have done a lot
to
help with that. Success with Downtown Master Plan is likely the linchpin
of
renewing the BID when it comes up for renewal, which will be in the next
12-18 months if I am not mistaken.
We also finished up Parks. Marilyn asked that we come back later to an
item
funding various management plans, beginning with Conservation Lands,
continuing on through Turf Management, which is probably as far through
the
list as Parks can expect to get in one year. The Conservation Plan came
in
as the top priority because turf has good science associated with it and
public buy-in for the techniques indicated. Conservation lands
management
needs more original work and includes a public process to determine how
to
balance tolerance for pesticide and antipathy toward noxious weeds or
the
desires of recreational users with the health of the land. A half-dozen
new
requests were turned down - the list of funded and unfunded new requests
in
the budget is at
ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us//Documents/Council_Review_Budget_FY09/New%20
Requ
ests%20From%20All%20Departments%20FY%2009-ForCouncil.xls
<ftp://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/Documents/Council_Review_Budget_FY09/New%20
Requ
ests%20From%20All%20Departments%20FY%2009-ForCouncil.xls> - including
one
to keep good behaviors at the skate park by hiring some young people to
be
good role models by wearing helmets, doing awesome tricks, and living
clean.
Apparently, this was a strategy that historically succeeded in roller
rinks.
Marilyn remembered the people in the roller rink of her youth who fit
this
profile and was shocked to learn they were likely planted. It seems like
a
good idea and not too expensive. It would be nice to fund but there's
unlikely to be enough money this year since the item is currently
unfunded.
That wrapped up Parks although we will be returning for Marilyn's
conservation lands discussion and Stacy's request that we revisit the
Park
Maintenance budget, which was reduced by over half, meaning that
improvements at several existing parks will not be funded id the status
quo
prevails.
Finally, we considered non-departmental budget items, including the
legislative agenda ($27,500 for a lobbyist, intern and expenses). There
was
money for a legislative reception in there; Mayor Engen estimated about
half
the delegation comes down to hear from Council and administration. I
hope we
rate better than 50% attendance next time. How the state behaves or
doesn't
is critical to how well the city serves its constituents. We also
discussed
the city's pay structure for non-union employees, including how
cost-of-living adjustments (3%) and step increases (2%) for employees
making
below the midpoint for their pay grade, which reflects pay in similar
cities, combine to keep city employees interested in working with us.
There
was also some discussion about a plan to add skill/competency-based pay.
It
was ensconced in a bunch of bureaucratese that translates the sensible
substantive goal of paying people for adding skills into a neutral
procedure
for figuring out when that has happened. We also talked about taking a
look
at the distribution of salaries again down the line, since the last
salary
survey was completed in 2004. Probably, there will be a referral on that
when budget season winds down.
There will be a special budget hearing Thursday night from 7-9 p.m. in
City
Council Chambers. We will be discussing the remainder of the
non-departmental items, everything from the Missoula Cultural Council to
the
Missoula Area Economic Development Corporation to the Missoula Ravalli
Transportation Management Association.
Thanks for your interest.
*******
Jason Wiener, Alderman, Ward One
1238 Jackson St.
Missoula, MT 59802
(406) 542-3232
jwiener at ci.missoula.mt.us
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End of MissoulaGov Digest, Vol 29, Issue 4
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